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 Post subject: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 8:59 am 
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Location: Portland Oregon
My first question is that I noticed there was a spring reverb and a spring reverb 2 in the website store. The spring reverb 2 was not available so I went ahead and purchased the spring reverb. In their description they seemed to be the same. My question is what is the difference between the two reverb's. Sense I noticed no real difference in the description of the two I went ahead and purchased the Spring Reverb. My second question is that I was hoping there was some modification schematics for the spring reverb like I would like to add a tone knob or and anything else that's really cool out there. Thanks again for all your help.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:47 am 
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If you search for reverb, it will bring up the reverb2 which we no longer make. The difference between the two is that the reverb2 used the BTDR-2 and the current spring reverb uses the BTDR-3. The copy may say the exact same thing on both products, but that is not correct.

As far as mods go, yes, you could add a tone knob. You could replace R5 and R6 with a dual gang B10k pot and probably make C3 a .1uf. You don't need to use both outputs of the reverb module. You could only use one. So for examply, you could just pull R6 completly and then use a regular single gang pot in place of R5. However, if you do this, the overall volume of the wet reverb signal will be reduced a little bit, so you may need to adjust R10, or just not have quite as much max reverb on tap. Or if you just want to hardwire it so that the reverb is darker, just make C3 larger. The problem you will run into is that there is not much room on the inside to add another pot...at least not on the top of the pedal. You could add another pot and knob on the side.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:32 am 
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Location: Portland Oregon
Thanks for the great information. I have so many questions about this modification. I really like the idea of eliminating R6 and tapping into R5 with a potentialmeter. Do I just run a jumper wire in the place of R6? As I take it R5 and 6 control the tone. What is the difference between R5 and R6 and how are they related to each other when manipulating the tone. I'm thinking the Reverb unit is stereo is R5 a left output tone and R6 a right output tone control. If I decided to use a to use potentiometers in the place of R5 and R6 I would just use a larger enclosure. If I was to adjust R10 would I adjusted it up in resistance or down to make the Reverb darker sounding.

Thanks again,

Glenn

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Alisoncustomshop wrote:
Thanks for the great information. I have so many questions about this modification. I really like the idea of eliminating R6 and tapping into R5 with a potentialmeter. Do I just run a jumper wire in the place of R6? As I take it R5 and 6 control the tone. What is the difference between R5 and R6 and how are they related to each other when manipulating the tone. I'm thinking the Reverb unit is stereo is R5 a left output tone and R6 a right output tone control. If I decided to use a to use potentiometers in the place of R5 and R6 I would just use a larger enclosure. If I was to adjust R10 would I adjusted it up in resistance or down to make the Reverb darker sounding.

Thanks again,

Glenn


They are two separate outputs, but as far as I can tell, there's really no difference between the two. They don't appear to be out of phase with each other. They are simply two outputs, so connecting the two of them simply gives more output. And removing one of them would simply make the output less. So you you don't need to jumper R6. You can just pull it completely.

R5 and C3 form a low pass filter. R6 and C3 form a low pass filter. R5 and R6 are sharing C3. Really, C3 is the more important component when it comes to affecting the tone. If you were to pull R6 completely, and replace R5 with an 10k pot, this would give you a variable low pass filter when combined with C3. You don't necessarily need to use a 10k pot and change C3 to .1uF. You could use a 25k and .047uf, or a 50k and .022uf, or a 100k and .01uf, and still have roughly have the same sort of tone control, but the smaller you keep the pot, the less it will affect the overall volume.

Back to the first thing - if you pull R6, you may need to reduce R10 to compensate for the volume loss of only having 1 reverb output. If you find that you already have plenty of wet signal on tap, then it probably won't be a concern.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 9:03 am 
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Location: Portland Oregon
Thanks, this is great information. I'm thinking I would like to have the Dual gang potentiometer because I wouldn't want to have the loss of the overall Reverb output signal. Is there a picture schematic of how to solder this up. I'm thinking that I just come out of out of R5 and R6 to the potentiometer and then out of the potentiometer back into the in of R5 and R6 to complete the circuit right. What if I left R6 as is and reduced the value of R10 in conjunction with a 10K pot on R5 and reduced C3 to a
.1uF would this help retain the overall volume of the Reverb. What would be the best scenario that makes the tone variable with the least loss of overall volume Reverb output?

Thanks again,
Glenn

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:26 pm 
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To be honest, I've never actually done this mod, so it's all hypothetical at this point. If you leave R6 as is, I don't think you will hear any change in the tone, as it would cancel anything you do with the R5 signal path. And even if it didn't, you really don't want two juxtaposing reverb signals....not if you're wanting a spring reverb. Yes, that would give you a richer sound, but blending two signals like that will start to give you a chorusing effect. That may sound nice, but you will start to lose the "spring" sound. That was one of the complaints about the previous version of the BTDR. You can certainly give that a try though and see what it sounds like.

The simplest thing to do would be to replace R5 and R6 with a dual gang 10k pot and changing C3 exactly like you suggested. Treat each gang of the pot as a separate entity. Connect lug 3 of each pot to its respective eyelet that connects to the reverb module. Connect lug 1 of each pot to its respective eyelet that connects to C3. Connect lug 2 to lug1 of itself on each pot. Replace C3 with a .1uF cap. You may want to play around with the value of C3 till you find what you're looking for. Bigger value will cut more. Smaller will cut less. As I said though, I've never actually done this, so a 10k pot may not have as much of an effect as you would expect. You can use a larger value pot with a smaller value for C3, but I'm not sure of the effect it will have on the wet signal output level. The concept is simple. You are just turning R5/C3 and R6/C3 into a variable low pass filter. The perfect values will require some experimentation on your part. And you may need to compensate at R10 to get the wet dry mix where you'd expect it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Thanks, I'll experiment around like you were suggesting to find the Sweet Spot of R5 and R6 in combination with C3. And I'll definitely keep you updated and let you know how it turns out. Thanks again for all your good advice I really appreciate it,

Glenn

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Location: Portland Oregon
Sorry to bug you again I'm about to order these capacitors in the potentiometers but I can't tell which capacitor is C3 and which resistors are R5 and R6 I can see them on the schematic and they seem to be last capacitors before the output as far as I can tell but on the board I can't tell which capacitors and resistors are the ones I need to deal with here are the pictures of the board could you please identify the capacitors in the resistors I need to change thank you so much.

Glenn


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Screenshot_20180512-114608.png
Screenshot_20180512-114608.png [ 706.64 KiB | Viewed 10715 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:02 pm 
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From THIS THREAD in the BBD Effects forum:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Location: Portland Oregon
Wow thanks that's totally awesome. I'd really like to learn how to identify the parts on the CB board like that for myself and I wish the circuit boards came marked like this besides that I love these kits and you guys are awesome too.

Thanks again,
Glenn

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:31 pm 
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No problem. There's a labeled PCB diagram along with the corresponding circuit schematic (or a link to it) for almost every BYOC kit, courtesy of moderator Stephen, bless his heart! Just look in the "sticky" section of the sub-forum for the effect type of the kit you're researching.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 11:29 am 
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Thanks I'll go check that out. I have another question about the instructions for the spring reverb kit in Step 2 it says to solder in the potentialmeters in and it's reads 100 k for the volume, 50k for the resonance, 500k for the filter and 50k for the gain but there's only two potential meters on the pedal what are these other potentiometers they mention are they modifications you can add. I'm learning so much from you guys thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 3:39 pm 
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I think that paragraph got copied over to the Reverb 2 instructions from another BYOC pedal, and then wasn't edited to reflect just the two controls. Ignore it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:40 am 
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I can't seem to find this sticky sub-forum that you guys were talking about with PCB diagrams and corresponding circuit schematics.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:10 am 
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Alisoncustomshop wrote:
I can't seem to find this sticky sub-forum that you guys were talking about with PCB diagrams and corresponding circuit schematics.

I wasn't referring to a single forum. Almost all of the sub-forums (see marked up screenshot below) in the Effects Pedal Technical Support forum have a sticky with the PCB layouts for their type of effects.
Attachment:
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Here's an example in the Compressors sub-forum:
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comp_forum_index.gif [ 76.93 KiB | Viewed 10681 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:08 am 
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I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding the hook up of the potentiometers that control R5 and R6. You say to hook up lug 2 to lug 1 of itself do you mean just put a jumper wire across lug 1 and lug 2. Would that be called a rheostat in the past I've hooked up potentiometers treating lug one as the in lug 2 as the out and lug 3 grounded to itself. A picture of what you mean would be awesome. You also mentioned that C3 controls the darkness of the Reverb signal is there any way to make C3 variable. I understand that by putting a potentiometer hooked up to R5 and R6 we are controlling the resistance to C3 but is there any way to make C3 variable.

Thanks again,
Glenn

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:27 am 
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Alisoncustomshop wrote:
I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding the hook up of the potentiometers that control R5 and R6. You say to hook up lug 2 to lug 1 of itself do you mean just put a jumper wire across lug 1 and lug 2. Would that be called a rheostat in the past I've hooked up potentiometers treating lug one as the in lug 2 as the out and lug 3 grounded to itself. A picture of what you mean would be awesome. You also mentioned that C3 controls the darkness of the Reverb signal is there any way to make C3 variable. I understand that by putting a potentiometer hooked up to R5 and R6 we are controlling the resistance to C3 but is there any way to make C3 variable.

Thanks again,
Glenn



Yes, a rheostat is exactly what you are trying to create here. You just want a variable resistance. You don't need the voltage divide capabilities of the potentiometer. You just jumper 2 and 1 together.

No. You cannot make C3 variable. There are variable capacitors, but they are only available in very small values. You could put several capacitors on a switch and change the value of C3. But R5 + C3 make a low pass filter. Making R5 a variable resistance allows you to set how dark it is.

The tone control on the RAT is a good example of what you are trying to do here https://www.electrosmash.com/proco-rat

If you need help with a diagram, you can draw up one yourself as best you can, and then we'll take a look at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Just finished the the spring reverb build. I decided to build it stock first and get it to work and then if all went well make the modifications we talked about. It was a really nice smooth build thanks to you or easy to understand instructions. The circuit boards are built like tanks and the components remind me of the old school analog stuff you would find in a stereo receiver from the 70s, I love it! I added snap off sockets at R5, R6, R10 and C3 so that I could easily change the parts out when I made modifications later in the build. Like I said the build went smooth but there's a couple of strange things going on. The first thing is that when I turn the Reverb level or the dwell past halfway it starts to oscillate out of control so I remove the resistor from R6 thinking it was the two outputs opposing each other it helped but it didn't make it go away. The only thing that corrected the problem was by replacing the resistor at R5 4K7 with a 100K resistor and I left R6 out but now there doesn't seem to be as much wet Reverb on tap like you said might happen but there's enough. The second problem is that when the Reverb is off it seems to reduce the volume level of my amp another words there's a big difference in volume from when the Reverb is on and when the Reverb is off. The other problem is is when I click the foot switch off the LED light never really goes off it stays real dim if I could fix this two problems the Reverb pedal will work great any solutions

Thanks for all your help,
Glenn

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:03 am 
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I'm confused. Did you build the pedal stock and it worked fine? Or did you never actually get the pedal working as it should stock?

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Yes I built the pedal stock I added snap off sockets at R5 R6 or R10 and C3 so that I can add the modification later. When I tested the pedal stock the pedal would oscillate out of control when I turned the Reverb volume or the dwell volume past 50% so I pulled the resistor from R6 thinking that R5 and R6 was causing an oscillation that didn't work it's still ocellated out of control when I would turn the Reverb volume or the dwell volume past 50% so just out of experimentation I put a 100K resistor in R5 and left R6 out and it worked but I didn't have as much wet Reverb on hand. The other problem is is when I turn the pedal off the volume of my amp is really low compared to when the pedal is on also when I turn the pedal off the LED stays dimly lit.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:12 am 
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Okay. Then we need to just get the pedal working for now and not worry about the mods. If you're getting some sort of oscillation, you've got something wrong, because the circuit does not have a feedback loop. Maybe you have a short in the signal path that is causing one. Let's see some pics of your build.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:12 am 
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Okay. Then we need to just get the pedal working for now and not worry about the mods. If you're getting some sort of oscillation, you've got something wrong, because the circuit does not have a feedback loop. Maybe you have a short in the signal path that is causing one. Let's see some pics of your build.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:52 pm 
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byoc wrote:
...Let's see some pics of your build.

Please make them large, well-focused and well-lit.

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:15 am 
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hey guys thanks for all your help here are some pictures of my spring reverb build. The build is stock with the exception of R5 has been changed from a 4K7 resistor to a 100K resistor because it was the only thing that kept the petal from osculating out of control. I have also removed the resistor from R6 as recommended by Keith.


Attachments:
spring 3.jpg
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spring 2.jpg
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spring1.jpg
spring1.jpg [ 129.2 KiB | Viewed 10405 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Spring reverb
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:21 am 
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and a couple more pictures


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spring 5.jpg
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spring 4.jpg
spring 4.jpg [ 94.29 KiB | Viewed 10404 times ]

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