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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:43 am 
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Thanks K! This is exactly what I was looking for. I've been thinking about build a Delay like this for months. I've moved a few things off of my bench as of late, so I may be ready to actually try this fairly soon :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:18 pm 
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Wow - nice one Kahel! :shock: I don't think I would have ever thought of combining the ground of the LED's with the ground connection on the pots. Simple, elegant, effective...

Well done and thanks for the diagram! :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:17 pm 
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Thanks, glad you like it! It just dawned on me that this was obvious, and the cool thing is, you can do this with any pot wired as a voltage divider as long as it uses ground and not Vbias. And you can share it - so even if you have two voltage divider pots, you can still use a 3PDT.

K


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:52 pm 
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That's what I was thinking too. With a 4PDT you can effectively have two completely separate delay pedals using one board and one component set. That $12 4-pole switch at Small Bear can save those who "need" two delay separate settings at their feet another $50+ in parts. Cool!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:01 am 
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Hey guys, sorry to state the obvious here but, by making one of the delay pots a B50k and one a B25k, you can truely have two delays in one box.

I bet Kieth is cursing us right now as sales of delay boards are gonna soar then drop right off. Sorry Kieth :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:19 am 
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Morgan wrote:
You should know, by now, that the BYOC delay is capable of self oscillation when the repeats knob is turned up really high. Wouldn't it be great if you could control that oscillation without having to bend over to manually adjust the knobs while you're trying to freak out the audience?

Well...you can!

This mod details how to install a momentary footswitch to throw the delay into wild oscillation only when you step on the button. The osc pot controls how quickly the delay will oscillate. And the second diagram details how to make the momentary switch into it's own box to save real estate on the main unit. Note that all wiring to off board components is the same as in the instructions except where shown in the diagrams.

Enjoy!

kahel wrote:
There's a secret trick to adding the mod in an external enclosure, and it involves parallel resistors. If you look at the diagram on the right, you'll recognize the 15k resistor, now bridging the ring and tip connectors. This makes the pedal work normally with no jack inserted. When you insert the jacks, the pot in the external enclosure will be in parallel with the 15k. Note that this also means that the external feedback pot is bigger:


[align=center]Image
[/align]
Some may ask why I've not drawn it with mono jacks, since I'm only using two of the lugs on the jacks. Well, you CAN use mono jacks, if you also use plastic washers and make absolutely sure that the jack metal isn't touching the enclosures anywhere.

K



how do you do this mod without the osc pot?

i would like to wire it so that it goes into self osc (fairly quickly) no matter where the repeats knob is set.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:13 pm 
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plumbkin wrote:
how do you do this mod without the osc pot?

i would like to wire it so that it goes into self osc (fairly quickly) no matter where the repeats knob is set.


The best way to do it is to wire it up as shown in version #1, but without the 2.2k resistor. Don't mount the pot on the enclosure - you are wiring it in temporarily. Get the pedal working and find out where you like the osc pot set for the type of oscillation you want. Then remove the osc pot and measure the resistance across lugs 2 and 3. Replace the pot with a similar value resistor and you're good to go.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:01 pm 
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Hi Morgan.

What I needed to clear up on the other thread was this.......

Do you short the 15K to ground to get trails? As in, if you short it, you stop any further signal entering the delay path and only keep the repeats that are there?

OR....Do you bypass the 15K as with this diagram

Image

In order to keep the signal path intact, but keep the trails going if you turn the pedal off given that any signal will take the path of least resistance....bla, bla....

Or, as is probably the case, have I missed the boat completely?

I have my trails switch wired as per the original mod drawing (again, ignore the led side of things as I have this sussed) but I only get a delay effect when I turn the switch to "trails on"! I.E. When the top two poles on the left of the original mod drawing are connected. If I turn the switch so that the bottom two poles on the left are connected, I.E....one end of the 15K is lifted but not connected to the PCB, I get NO delay effect, just a dry signal.

As I have it wired (as per the original mod drawing, not the one I have posted) if I turn the pedal off, the trails stop with the pedal so in effect ('scuse the pun :lol: ) the mod does not work in my case. Should I wire it as per MY drawing in order to bypass the 15K but let signal through this part of the PCB?

Let me know if you want photo's although this may be difficult due to the fact that I came off the underside of the PCB with wires to the switch and put the 15K between one end of one wire and the pole on the switch which I then sleeved in heatshrink to stop it shorting on anything.

I hope at least some of this makes sense to you.

Spud

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:52 pm 
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Hi Spud,

I'm not quite sure that you're understanding what this mod should do (sorry if you do - just need to clear this up), so let me back up a bit. With an older delay pedal, say an old Ibanez AD-8, if you were playing with some heavy delay and abruptly stopped playing and bypassed the pedal, the repeated notes would trail off after you turned the pedal off. With true bypass, that does not happen because the entire circuit is bypassed. This mod was worked out for those who miss those trailing repeats when the pedal is bypassed. Also, this mod is constructed so that SW1 (bypass) acts as a master "true" bypass for the pedal, and SW2 (meant to be a footswitch) acts similar to the way an old Boss or Ibanez does it's bypass. When SW2 shorts the 15K resistor out of the circuit, it effectively acts like a non-true bypass pedal does.

Spud wrote:
Do you short the 15K to ground to get trails? As in, if you short it, you stop any further signal entering the delay path and only keep the repeats that are there?

Yes - sort of. You don't short it to ground, you simply break the connection.

Spud wrote:
OR....Do you bypass the 15K as with this diagram

No. Nothing gets connected to lug 3 on SW2.

Spud wrote:
I have my trails switch wired as per the original mod drawing (again, ignore the led side of things as I have this sussed) but I only get a delay effect when I turn the switch to "trails on"! I.E. When the top two poles on the left of the original mod drawing are connected. If I turn the switch so that the bottom two poles on the left are connected, I.E....one end of the 15K is lifted but not connected to the PCB, I get NO delay effect, just a dry signal.

As I have it wired (as per the original mod drawing, not the one I have posted) if I turn the pedal off, the trails stop with the pedal so in effect ('scuse the pun :lol: ) the mod does not work in my case.

It sounds to me like you have everything wired correctly but are using the mod incorrectly. Let me say it this way:
SW1 ON = Effect is in your effects chain.
SW1 OFF = "Master Bypass" /Effect is being bypassed completely. Bypassing effect while playing cuts all repeats off immediately.

SW2 ON = Normal operation, delay is happening.
SW2 OFF = "non-true bypass"/Delay circuit is bypassed, but trailing repeats are allowed to "exit" the circuit. Your signal is still being routed through the buffer portion of the circuit, but not into the delay portion of the circuit. Bypassing effect while playing will allow repeats to "finish off".

Do this to check that it's working: set your delay knob to the longest setting and repeats to near maximum. Hit one note on your guitar and turn off SW2. You should have the repeats from that one note keep repeating until they're "finished", but any notes played after bypassing via SW2 will not add to the repeats. That's all this mod does.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:45 am 
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You have now made feel like a complete f£$king idiot :mrgreen:

I HAD misunderstood the mod in that I thought the switch would allow trails to carry on if the true bypass (SW1) was switched and therefore had it as a toggle switch to choose between the two modes :roll: .

Now I understand how it really works, I'll just have to live with the extra holes in the enclosure :oops: :lol: .

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:00 pm 
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Hi Morgan,

I am new to the forum. I've built a few of the BYOC kits at this point. I am quite happy with them all so far but I really miss the trailing repeats with my ping pong delay. Does a similar mod exist for the digital ping pong delay as for the single analog delay that has been described above? I've done some experimenting and not been successful so far. If possible, I'd like to make make the pedal operate in trailing mode permanently as I have already built a true bypass loop box to completely take the pedal out of my signal chain when not in use. Thanks in advance for any advice.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:26 am 
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Hi j - No verified mod for this on the PP delay yet, and I haven't seen a schematic for the analog delay, so no mod for that yet either.

Doing the trailing repeats mod on the PP delay is a little tricky because you are dealing with 2 independent delay circuits that are switched between series and parallel operations. If you understand how the original trailing repeats mod works, I would use the same concept and try and switching out R24 and R32 at the same time for the trasils mod - either on a 3PDT switch with an LED or a DPDT switch with no LED. This is not verified, but it will block signal from entering the delay chain and allow signal to escape from the second chip. The only problem is you will be blocking signal between the 2 chips and cutting about half of your delays when in trails mode. Don't be afraid to give it a try though - you might like it.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:22 am 
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Hi there!

Like Morgan says, the snag with the dual delay is that there are two delay paths and two modes, and in one of the modes you have to lift both paths, while in the other mode you should only lift one.

The way to do this is to lift the front end of the two capacitors C19 and C31. But instead of totally lifting C31, connect it back to the delay/ping pong switch, at the lugs that bridge OutA to InB (point 9 or 10 in the schematic, the two lugs that bridge on the board).

If that didn't make sense I'll probably make a diagram of it soon.

8) K


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:11 pm 
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Thanks for the tips guys. I might try Kahe'ls suggestion about the capacitors soon. But, I got a little impatient over the weekend and compared the schematic and parts layouts of the analog and pp. I ended up putting R24 and R32 on a 3pdt that opens and closes the feed to both chips with an indicator LED, as Morgan said. As expected the trails are there, but only in ping pong mode. Single mode gives a couple repeats and cuts abruptly. This is fine with me, since I only use it in pp mode (similar to Toadworks' Redux). I have even considered jumping the slots of the toggle to always be in pp so I can use the toggle to send the repeats knob to an expression pedal I already have with the same pot in it. That'll be next weekend. I am completely hooked on this stuff now! :P


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:58 pm 
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So I think I am done tinkering with this Ping Pong thing for now. I replaced R24 and R32 to stock and instead followed Kahel's method for trailing repeats using the stock 3PDT and lifting C19 and C31. For this, I got some inline electrolytics in a mix bag from I-Really-Need-to-Sell-You-a-Cell-Phone-Charger-Shack. So far, this all works wonderfully (for me, at least)! I no longer have a true bypass pedal, but for me the trails are definitely more important especially when I'm trying make pretty self oscillation. Besides, a looper was easy enough to build to take it completely out of my chain when not in use at all. I even installed an expression pedal jack in parallel from the repeats pot so I can ride the oscillations and mix them with dry riffs. I would have preferred to do this on a switched TRS but the Shack couldn'y come through for me there.

The darker tone and volume drop was still bothering me, so I read this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9169&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=25

After experimenting with sockets for R5 and C3 and C7 I settled for 5.1K .33µF and .0022µF respectively. This keeps my buffered dry tone almost identical to bypassed with a very (very) subtle increase in volume when engaged (almost like the increased clarity from an SHO circuit). If I had some film caps between .0022µF and .01µF around I'd try those too, to match the volume even bettererer.

I couldn't be happier with this pedal right now. It's been almost a decade since I owned a delay pedal. This one has become my top choice aside from dropping a small fortune on two AD999s and modding each for expression pedals.

Sorry, no pictures right now. Due to indecisiveness during this whole process, the inside of this thing looks like the Big Dig. :| :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Morgan wrote:
You should know, by now, that the BYOC delay is capable of self oscillation when the repeats knob is turned up really high. Wouldn't it be great if you could control that oscillation without having to bend over to manually adjust the knobs while you're trying to freak out the audience?

Well...you can!

This mod details how to install a momentary footswitch to throw the delay into wild oscillation only when you step on the button. The osc pot controls how quickly the delay will oscillate. And the second diagram details how to make the momentary switch into it's own box to save real estate on the main unit. Note that all wiring to off board components is the same as in the instructions except where shown in the diagrams.

Enjoy!

kahel wrote:
There's a secret trick to adding the mod in an external enclosure, and it involves parallel resistors. If you look at the diagram on the right, you'll recognize the 15k resistor, now bridging the ring and tip connectors. This makes the pedal work normally with no jack inserted. When you insert the jacks, the pot in the external enclosure will be in parallel with the 15k. Note that this also means that the external feedback pot is bigger:


[align=center]Image
[/align]
Some may ask why I've not drawn it with mono jacks, since I'm only using two of the lugs on the jacks. Well, you CAN use mono jacks, if you also use plastic washers and make absolutely sure that the jack metal isn't touching the enclosures anywhere.

K



I'm currently putting this mod together. Doesn't seem to be working properly. I checked over the wiring and it looks good. Can anyone tell me if this is the correct momentary switch for this mod? This is the one I'm using....

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=27

For this switch Small Bear says "use SPST or SPDT, NO or NC for logic-switched pedals and rack units....".

If this isn't the correct one, can anyone tell me where you can find the proper one?

Thx!


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:11 am 
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your switch might be an "on-off", instead of an "on/on"
What is this mod doing? Nothing? Have any pics?


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:33 am 
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Okay, I figured it out. Just swapped the 2 wires on the mmntry switch and it works! This thing would be great if you could hit it into self-osc at ANY setting of the repeats knob. Anyone done this? Is it even possible?


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:25 pm 
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pbay1129 wrote:
Okay, I figured it out. Just swapped the 2 wires on the mmntry switch and it works! This thing would be great if you could hit it into self-osc at ANY setting of the repeats knob. Anyone done this? Is it even possible?


Everything's possible. Are you doing version 1 (internal) or 2 (external encl.)?

8-) K


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:40 pm 
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I did it with version 2, an ext. enclosure. Hammond m!


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:04 pm 
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pbay1129 wrote:
I did it with version 2, an ext. enclosure. Hammond m!


That makes it a tiny bit harder, considering we only have three lugs on the jacks. Let me think on it for a bit. I assume this is the regular delay, not the ping-pong? [EDIT:] and you've added the external pot, like in the diagram?

K


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:31 pm 
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This is the regular delay. I appreciate your help Kahel, I'm actually doing a gig next month in Voss, hope to use my modded byoc delay over there! 8^)


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:56 pm 
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pbay1129 wrote:
This is the regular delay. I appreciate your help Kahel, I'm actually doing a gig next month in Voss, hope to use my modded byoc delay over there! 8^)


What we need to do is to bypass the main repeats path with a second path, which is easy in theory, but since we're using regular stereo jacks for the external box, that makes it a bit tricky, since the repeats pot is a voltage divider... we're one lug short, basically.

(Jeg kjenner Voss ganske godt, hvor skal du spille?)

;-) K


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:00 pm 
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kahel wrote:
... but since we're using regular stereo jacks for the external box, that makes it a bit tricky, since the repeats pot is a voltage divider... we're one lug short, basically.


XLR?


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:14 pm 
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Naz Nomad wrote:
kahel wrote:
... but since we're using regular stereo jacks for the external box, that makes it a bit tricky, since the repeats pot is a voltage divider... we're one lug short, basically.


XLR?


No help, only three contacts too. We may need a switching jack. Switchcraft has some simple 1 pole ones.

K


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