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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:04 am 
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Hello, all! So I've just completed my fifth BYOC build, and I'm really loving them all so far but I've got an issue with my Echo Royal: When I click the effect on the dry signal cuts out for a moment, and when I click it off the dry signal is boosted way loud for a moment. In addition, there's a slight volume drop in the dry signal when the effect is on, regardless of how I have the mix knob (unless I have the dry signal turned down overall, in which case it operates properly).

Page 7 of the PDF instructions has a list of mods for the resistors, and I actually had to do each of them due to the resistors included in the kit. I have no idea what they do, but could that be related to my issues? Attached is a pic of her guts. Thanks!

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EchoRoyalGutsLowerRes.jpg
EchoRoyalGutsLowerRes.jpg [ 640.58 KiB | Viewed 1933 times ]


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:17 am 
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I should add that the effects, switches, knobs and LEDs work perfectly


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:13 pm 
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Can we see the bottom of the PCB, please?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:22 pm 
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Easier said than done :mrgreen:
(Please let me know if you have any tips on getting everything back in the enclosure. With every build I've had some trouble getting the LEDs to line up and fit since they require some force to get in, while getting everything else to line up. This one was especially tough!)

Let me know if there are any additional/better angles that might help. Thanks so much!!!

Attachment:
EchoGuts2LowRes.jpg
EchoGuts2LowRes.jpg [ 580.09 KiB | Viewed 1905 times ]


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:20 am 
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It looks pretty good. I wanted to see the bottom because you have a few blobs where you used too much solder on the top. You should reflow all your solder joint. You likely have a poor connection to one of the switching JFETs.

If your LEDs are a tight fit, you can try reaming their holes out a little bit. A step bit is really nice to use. If you go at it from the inside of the enclosure, it will add a slight bevel that makes it easier to get the LED in the hole and you can't see it from the outside. You don't need to use a drill. You can do it by hand.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Cool, I'll do that, thanks! Should I just go over each of the solder joints again with the iron itself from the bottom?

Also, is there a particular size range of step bit that you'd recommend?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:10 pm 
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The 1/2" UniBit will have you covered for everything pedal-related.

https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Tools-Unib ... B00004THYX

FWIW, I've used other brands that are cheaper. Nothing I've used stays as sharp for as long as the Irwin Unibit. If you only ever use it on soft aluminum alloys, it might last a lifetime. Even in mild steel, they're good for hundreds of holes. The weak point (literally) is the tip... it'll dull and wear out first. I like to lay out and drill all my holes with a cheap 1/8" bit for pilot holes, then chase them with the unibit. Go slow, let the bit do the work, and your holes shouldn't wander much.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:14 am 
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GregTurrigenous wrote:
Cool, I'll do that, thanks! Should I just go over each of the solder joints again with the iron itself from the bottom?

Yep. Touch the iron tip to the solder joint until the solder melts. Lift it, let the joint freeze again, and move on to the next one. Tin and clean the tip as necessary. The whole thing should only take a few minutes, even on a large board like this.

It’s a good idea to remove ICs from their sockets first to avoid damaging them with the heat. (Just don’t forget to put them back in when you’re done!)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Let me start with the good: the step bit trick worked wonders! Putting the unit back together was a cinch thanks to the LEDs going nicely into place. Thanks!

Sadly, the pedal is functioning the exact same way after reflowing every joint. Got rid of some of those blobbier instances, but there's absolutely no difference (it's a shame because I really wanted to swap out my DD3: this is the last pedal on my gigging board (besides the tuner) that's not a BYOC).

Could it just be a faulty switch? :? Any other ideas are certainly welcome.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:03 am 
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The foot switch doesn't really have that much to do with the actual switching. The foot switch sends a low signal to the microcontroller. The microcontroller then sends a high signals to the various JFETs telling them to either open or close. It is the JFETs that do the actual signal switching.

It's difficult to say what your problem is, based on your description. The dry signal cutting out briefly could be explained by a problem with the microcontroller or maybe the debounce capacitor to Q7. But I don't know how to explain the brief volume boost. I think the best course of action is to remove all the JFETs and use jumpers to hardwire the pedal in "on" and get the dry signal up to where it's supposed to be.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=39391 There's a PCB map for the Echo Royal here. Scroll down a little bit.

Remove Q5, 6, 7, and 8. Hardwire the pedal in "on" by placing jumpers in Q5, 6, and 8 (but not Q7). You make a jumper by connecting the center eyelet (the Source) of the JFET to the top eyelet (the Drain). You leave the bottom eyelet (the Gate) empty.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but would hard wiring the pedal "on" make the effect always on? Also, when I refer to the dry signal, I mean coming out of the effect out of the pedal - I'm not using the dry out at all; not sure if that was clear.

I know that one mod had something to do with preventing noise when switching the effect on, so might swapping the .47µF capacitor at C8 back to a .047µF fix the issue?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Yes. That would make it always on.

I assumed you were talking about the dry signal that makes up the wet/dry mix, not the dedicated dry out. By removing the JFETs, (which could be having an effect on the wet/dry mix), it will make it easier to isolate the problem.

You're certainly welcome to try changing C8 back to a .047uF. If your problem is at the wet/dry mix, then I don't think it will help.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:09 pm 
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An update, hopefully final, for anyone curious or having similar problems:

Turning the pedal to a constant "on" state wouldn't help me address my main issue so I decided messing with C8, which seems to be the culprit for those on/off issues (which, frankly, were much more annoying than the very slight overall signal loss).

I first replaced the .47µ at C8 with the .047µ capacitor, and there was then a harsh signal boost at both turning the effect on AND off (although now very brief). So I used some very rudimentary logic and figured since I was getting a total momentary signal loss at .47, and a strange boost at .047, I should choose something in between. I settled on a .1µ cap, and that split the difference: there's a very slight noise when I turn the effect on and a very quick boost when turning off, but nowhere near the dealbreaker cut and boost levels and duration I was getting with the original .47µ.

The final test will be at rehearsal this coming tuesday: At home I'm just using the pedal directly into a 1w Blackstar with a clean tone at bedroom levels, but in the studio it'll sit in the FX loop of my 100w Laney at playing-with-drummer levels so any weirdness should be much more apparent.

As for the overall dry signal loss, I'm not noticing it anymore at home but I might at studio loudness. I again reflowed some of the possibly suspect connections near the JFETs so maybe that fixed it?

Thanks again for all the help!


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:03 pm 
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:(
At rehearsal volume and in the FX loop the dry signal volume drop is still noticeable, and the boost when the effect is turned off is at an unacceptable level. The only problem solved was the signal cut when turning the effect on. Eventually I'll probably bypass the JFETs to try and isolate the dry mix issue, but since I have no clue about the on/off issues this pedal will gather dust for now. :cry:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:43 am 
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So it's time I approached this pedal and fixed what's going on.

First, is there a way to mod the "mix" knob into an "effect level" knob? Or, in other words, can I have the dry signal always going through but use the mix knob to ONLY adjust the volume of the wet signal?

Second, as some other posters noted (I did my homework and have been looking through past posts for possible help), the tap delay sound is always a little slower than my foot/what the blinking light indicates. In addition, the rhythm knob doesn't do the proper divisions as per the kit's directions: it goes from quarter notes to dotted eighths to quarter triplets to eighth triplets, and they all seem to lag.

I apologize if the second question was answered elsewhere; I haven't seen theories or a solution. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:27 pm 
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GregTurrigenous wrote:
:(
At rehearsal volume and in the FX loop the dry signal volume drop is still noticeable, and the boost when the effect is turned off is at an unacceptable level. The only problem solved was the signal cut when turning the effect on. Eventually I'll probably bypass the JFETs to try and isolate the dry mix issue, but since I have no clue about the on/off issues this pedal will gather dust for now. :cry:


You can reduce the bypass signal by increasing the value of R16. You can manipulate the dry signal level by adjusting the series value of R18/R19. As it is now, there is a 12k and 15k in series for a total of 27k. The value of the individual resistors is not as important as the total value. If you want more volume, use less resistance.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:57 pm 
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GregTurrigenous wrote:
So it's time I approached this pedal and fixed what's going on.

First, is there a way to mod the "mix" knob into an "effect level" knob? Or, in other words, can I have the dry signal always going through but use the mix knob to ONLY adjust the volume of the wet signal?

Second, as some other posters noted (I did my homework and have been looking through past posts for possible help), the tap delay sound is always a little slower than my foot/what the blinking light indicates. In addition, the rhythm knob doesn't do the proper divisions as per the kit's directions: it goes from quarter notes to dotted eighths to quarter triplets to eighth triplets, and they all seem to lag.

I apologize if the second question was answered elsewhere; I haven't seen theories or a solution. Thanks!


Yes, you can modify it so that it has "wet level" rather than a "wet/dry blend". You'd need to remove C7 and Q8, effectively killing the dry blend signal path. Pull C14 to kill the dry bypass signal. You'll then need to add a "fixed" dry signal by using a 47k to jumper from the + eyelet of C7 to the source (middle eyelet) of Q8.

Next, you'll need to remove the B10k mix pot, R22, and R23. You'll want to replace the mix pot with a B50k solder lug pot. Essentially, we're turning your Echo Royal into more of a DM-3 rather than more of an AD-80 (actually, it already is more of a DM-3 with only the blend and FET bypass taken section taken from the AD-80). Connect lug 3 of the B50k pot to the north end eyelet of R22. Connect lug 2 of the B50k pot to the north end eyelet of R23. Connect lug 1 of the pot to any ground point.

Now, the dry signal should always be on regardless of whether you are in bypass or engaged and should always be the same level. Only the wet signal is being turned on or off. The output will be blocked in normal bypass. The input will be blocked in trails bypass.

As for the lag in the tap tempo, this isn't something we're noticing. You're only the second person to mention it that I'm aware. I'll look into it though. Unfortunately, it's not something you can adjust. It would be something that needs to be updated in the firmware.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:49 am 
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Thanks so much! Gonna get to it. Please keep me posted if there's any news about the delay time itself.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:12 am 
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GregTurrigenous wrote:
Thanks so much! Gonna get to it. Please keep me posted if there's any news about the delay time itself.


Will do. I need to burn another batch of MCU here pretty soon. I'll check the calibration while I'm under the hood.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:39 am 
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Trying to tackle this mod this weekend, but I'm having trouble discerning which is C14. I think there may be some mistakes on the labels of the image of the Echo Royal PCB in the layouts section of the forum. I see C10 and C20 occurring twice. I think one of the C20s is the C14, but I don't trust my ability to follow the traces yet. Apologies if I'm missing something obvious!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:13 pm 
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I see what you mean (here is a link to the layouts page for anyone who's looking). Even comparing the layout map to the schematic, I'm having trouble guessing which one is which. I'd have to look at the actual PCB. I don't have access to my Echo Royal at the moment, but I can check later if someone else doesn't pop in first.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:22 pm 
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C14 is just off the corner of pin 5 of the TL072. There's another 4u7 cap to the left and the LED to the right of it.

EDIT: I mean there's a 4u7 to the right and the LED to the left

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:23 pm 
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You could also pull R16 to the left of the LED just as well if that's easier than pulling C14.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:03 am 
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Mod somewhat successful! However, I've got two new issues:

1) The wet signal is way too loud. It's about as loud as the dry signal at 8 o'clock and just gets bonkers loud from there. Is there a resistor I can add in series to the B50K pot to bring it down substantially? Where would be the ideal place to put such a resistor?

2) I'm getting some loud static/hum when said pot is near minimum or maximum. Sign of a bad pot? Works fine from about 8 to 4 o'clock (other than the aforementioned wet signal loudness)

Thanks!

Edit, 3rd issue:
loud, bassy "pop" when I turn the effect on. I also replaced the 3 remaining JFETs while I was at everything, just in case they were the source of my initial problem. Had J112s, replaced them with J113s, but no change.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:53 am 
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GregTurrigenous wrote:
Mod somewhat successful! However, I've got two new issues:

1) The wet signal is way too loud. It's about as loud as the dry signal at 8 o'clock and just gets bonkers loud from there. Is there a resistor I can add in series to the B50K pot to bring it down substantially? Where would be the ideal place to put such a resistor?

2) I'm getting some loud static/hum when said pot is near minimum or maximum. Sign of a bad pot? Works fine from about 8 to 4 o'clock (other than the aforementioned wet signal loudness)

Thanks!

Edit, 3rd issue:
loud, bassy "pop" when I turn the effect on. I also replaced the 3 remaining JFETs while I was at everything, just in case they were the source of my initial problem. Had J112s, replaced them with J113s, but no change.


1. add a resistor in series between lug 2 to the PCB. The DM-2 uses a 47k in this spot, so that's probably the value you need.
2. This may have something to do with the polarity of C22, C19, or C16. You can actually get rid of C19. Just remove and jumper it. Make sure C16 and C22 or oriented correctly.
3. Try removing Q7 as well, since you don't need it anymore.

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