Build Your Own Clone Message Board

Hello all,

Might I ask for some help with the job I’ve done in doing this Lazy Sprocket kit? Here are two pics






The LED is coming on, and the bypass signal is coming through. I tried to set the trim pot but didn’t really hear anything until I cranked the volume on my amplifier. Then, I heard a very weak, undistorted signal come through. I turned the trimpot in all directions, but that didn’t increase the volume.

There’s what sounds like a slight, very slight swell to the already faint wet signal when you play with the 25k pot, but the volume is still well below unity.

I double checked the electrolytic cap values and triple checked the orientation of the caps and diodes....might anyone have an idea? Bad soldering? Bum capacitor?

Many thanks!
Ed

I've been having trouble with my lazy sprocket kits for months. mine sounds like a gate rather than a swell. I've gone over it a million times and can't find anything obviously wrong. I'm not getting a lot of help here either. right now mine is just a paper weight. if I happen to make a breakthrough, I will for sure let you know. if you discover your problem, please do the same for me. you can look through my post from a few months ago for some suggestions I got.

I don't see an answer to the last question on your thread, which was do you have a signal tester? If you have one or can buy/make one, the folks working with you would be glad to pick up where you left off.



OP, I am not very familiar with how this effect works, so the other mods and members may be better suited to help you. But some general observations might apply. Your soldering quality looks mostly good, but there are several joints where the solder is not flowing all the way through to the component side, which is what should happen with a proper joint on this type of double-plated PCB. I would recommend touching up the solder on this build and adding a bit more where it's needed to get that kind of flow.

And there are a few stray pet hairs (apparently common with this kit! ) that I would recommend cleaning away.

_________________
Scott

My band, Austin Hollow

Thanks for the reply. I looked through your post, and it looks like you’ve made some progress troubleshooting the pedal. Have you tried the audioprobe idea? It’s very easy to make one: all you need is a .1 uf cap (cap code 104) and a spare cable. Here’s the link I used for making mine: https://www.diypedalgearparts.com/en/no ... w-to-build

Sorry, but this is going to sound like a really basic, stupid question, but are you telling me that for these boards, solder needs to flow entirely through to the other side? So for the image below, the top pad for the circled diode is good but the bottom one is faulty?

And if so, is it better to flow the solder all the way through from underneath the board, or to solder directly onto the component side? Again, sorry for the basic questions, but I’m not an expert, obviously, and I’m worried about scorching diodes, trannies, the IC, etc.

Yes, the solder should cover the pads on both sides of the board. This can be done from the back side. There's a thread called "stephens solder tips" somewhere on here that is quite comprehensive, I'm sure DVM will be along anytime now to link to it. My recommendation to start would be to reflow all of your joints with a clean hot iron making sure it flows to the component side. After a reflow, clean your board with some isopropyl alcohol and an old toothbrush to remove any flux as it's been known to be mildly conductive.

Next steps are going to be gathering voltages; be prepared to answer the "do you have a multimeter and know how to use it" question
After that, it'll be probe time

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thank you. that's quite helpful. my problem has been that I can't afford the byoc tester which they recommend plus tax plus shipping. I might have some funds to make one. I don't happen to have anything in my spare parts bin that's useful for a probe. then I'll have to research how to use it. I'm a hobbyist and not knowledgeable enough to really understand what I'm doing. I've built 5 kits and this is the first problem I've had. I wish my first problem would have been on an easier circuit.

May I safely assume from looking at your build that you purchased a PCB and sourced the components yourself?

I see a couple of clear resistor placement errors, and some where I can't make out the color code banding. There also appears to be one of the resistors (the 390K spot in the lower right corner) where you soldered two or three resistors in series to achieve the correct resistance value (or close to it). Comments/questions (please refer to the marked up photo below):

1. 47K resistor installed where 22K should be.
2. 1M resistor installed where a 470 ohm should be. This is a serious error, as these two values differ by a factor of over 2,000! It would render the sensitivity control completely inoperative.
3. 330 ohm installed where a 390 ohm should be. Minor error.
4. Can't clearly see this resistor, but it appears to be a 100 ohm (brown-black-brown) when it should be 100K (brown-black-yellow). If I'm correct, this is another serious error, off by a factor of 1,000 and would compromise the attack portion of the circuit.
5. This is the series combo resistor I referred to above. The only resistor I can see is a 22K (red-red-orange). What value resistor(s) is it soldered to?

I also notice that you have four ceramic caps used in locations that would normally contain film caps. This isn't a problem as long as the capacitance values are correct. I raise this point because ceramic caps are generally used for lower capacitance values (picofarad range) than what these four positions require (2 x 22n, 33n and 47n). Please confirm how these ceramics are labeled.

Re: your question about solder eyelet flow-through, while it's not required with BYOC PCBs because they use through-eyelets, it's a strong indication of adequate solder flow and wetting, so we highly recommend that you see solder peeking through the eyelets on the component side.

Here are a couple of useful threads for you to check out, covering the solder joint re-flow and inspection process, as well as Stephen's wonderful build tips:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=52188

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6401

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

natezaps:

Let's pick this up back on your original thread, so as not to further mix the two topics. We try to keep each thread focused on a single problem since similar symptoms do NOT infer the same cause and remedy. The thread link is below. Thanks....

viewtopic.php?t=58388

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

thank you so much for your thorough suggestions! Many embarrassing errors! Thanks for your patience.



So I made all these revisions and no change to output. My old AW Sperry multimeter crapped out a long time ago and only really works to check continuity, so I'm waiting on a new one to be mailed to do voltage checks on the IC.

Meanwhile, might it be a good time to try to use a signal tester? If so, might anyone post a good intro to going through a schematic (particularly the Slow Gear, if that's available) with the probe to check my build?

Many thanks again!

No problem, that's why we're here. And no need for embarrassment; sourcing your own components introduces a lot of added opportunities for making mistakes. We've all been there.


Did you also go through the solder inspection & reflow process as suggested? We know from many years of experience here how often that simple process solves pedal problems.


DC voltage testing would be one of the logical next things to try. We might also want to check some transistor voltages.


Sure, but please confirm that you completed the solder reflow process before getting into signal testing. The testing process is pretty straightforward. First, you identify a handful of critical points that span the majority of the signal path of the circuit and test those points. The objective is to find the last point where the correct signal is found and the next point where it is missing or otherwise abnormal. You can then test additional points between those two to further pinpoint where the problem is originating. I have a working Sprocket here and can provide guidance for you in working through this testing process. This circuit is a bit on the complicated side, but nothing we can't work through. I'm not particularly familiar with all the details of how the Sprocket circuit works, but can always query Keith (byoc) if we get stuck.

The Lazy Sprocket schematic is here: http://byocelectronics.com/lazysprocketschematic.pdf

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

Duh, yes of course. I did do that and can post some pics that others might look them over to see whether it's an adequate reflow. Will do after lunch today.

Here’s my reflowing job. Still no change to wet signal output.

OK, here is the signal testing sequence that I would suggest starting with for your Sprocket. Please do the testing in the order shown. I have listed the signal description for each of these points on my own Sprocket with the Sensitivity set at 50% and the Attack all the way up. Refer to the PCB map below for the component positions. Right/left/upper/lower directions are relative to the pedal oriented with the footswitch at the bottom. The op amp pin numbering is per the left side of the image posted below the PCB map.

1. Middle leg (base) of Q1 (clean input signal, unity volume)
2. Lug 3 (left) of VR1/Sensitivity pot (clean input signal, unity volume)
3. Pin 3 of op amp (clean input signal, unity volume)
4. Pin 6 of op amp (LOUD, distorted signal)
5. Lower leg (collector) of Q5 (LOUD, distorted signal)
6. Lower leg (collector) of Q6 (LOUD, distorted signal)
7. Lug 3 (left) of VR2/Attack pot (LOUD, distorted signal)
8. Middle leg (base) of Q3 ("wet" signal with audible swell, unity volume)
9. Lug 7 of footswitch ("wet" signal with audible swell, unity volume)

PCB map:



Op amp pin numbering:

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

Holy crow, DVM, thank you very much. This is extremely my sh*t.

For my own edification, is the order that you suggested for the testing, is it the signal path of the from input to output? I have no background in electronics and can barely read a schematic, especially those with opamps.

Not exactly, because the Lazy Sprocket/Slow Gear circuit is not linear. Assuming that I am interpreting it correctly (and as I said before, I am not really all that familiar with this circuit), there is a dry signal path (the top portion of the schematic) along with a large section (the whole lower part of the schemo) that takes a portion of the dry signal and generates the swell part of the signal that is then blended back in to the dry signal to create the effect. Take a look at the Lazy Sprocket schematic and note those places where I specified the testing and it will give you a good idea of how I laid it out. It's basically input-->swell generation-->blend with dry signal-->output.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

Well, I tried testing the path as suggested, and got the expected result UNTIL the points 6-9. Should I start by replacing the transmitter at 6, testing the path again, and replacing the components at components at points 7 on as they prove "faulty?"

*transistor

I would carefully inspect the joint at the fault point to see if you can find any problems, and if it looks bad, reflow the solder. And if it looks good, reflow the solder.

_________________
Scott

My band, Austin Hollow

OK, just to confirm my interpretation of your reported results:

You have signal up through the collector of Q5, but no signal on the collector of Q6 or at lug 3 of the Attack pot?

Could you also test the wiper/middle lug of the Attack pot and see what you have there?

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

well, I reinstalled the socket for the IC and now I'm getting really loud, distorted signals at the collectors for q5 and q6, as well as lug three of the attack pot. they sound nothing like the distorted signal at pin 6, but there's now somethings at those points.

checked lug 2 of the same pot, similar loud distorted signal to other lug.

still a faint, unaffected signal at the base for q3 and lug 7 of the 3pdt

Did you try readjusting the trimpot after fixing the op amp socket?

Other than that, I would hold off further actions until your new multimeter arrives and we can check some voltages.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

I did adjust the trimpot but no dice.

I don’t know how much stock to put in these readings, since my old multimeter is not too reliable, but if these voltages are right, is there a trend or hint that you might see rearing its head?

Pin 1: 0.2
2: 0.9
3: 1.0
4: 0.0
5: 0.1
6: 4.3
7: 7.1
8: 0.0

In any event, my new multimeter should get here by Thursday night, happy days,

Yeah, I wouldn't put much stock in those numbers, given the questionable state of your meter. Let's see what the new one shows.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2