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 Post subject: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:16 pm 
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Hello, so I recently procured a phase royal kit from a friend who never built his. After spending last weekend soldering it all together, I have run into some issues. When the phase royal is plugged in and on, no sound comes out of the pedal. However the bypass still works, as when the phase royal is off everything sounds completely normal. I have uploaded photos, and will answer the sample questions for this topic.

5: Yes, the bypass works, and everything sounds normal (not thin or distorted)
6: Yes, the LED will blink as well, with the rate changing according to the rate knob
7: When I play, nothing is heard. If I put all the volume knobs at full on my amp/guitar/otherpedals I can hear a very faint guitar sound
8: The only control I can comment on is the rate knob, I cant say for certain about the other knobs
9: N/A, this phase royal does not support battery use


Attachments:
File comment: Top-main #1
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File comment: Bottom-module
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File comment: Bottom-main #1
20200617_205324-2.jpg
20200617_205324-2.jpg [ 660.64 KiB | Viewed 988 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:18 pm 
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Here are some more pictures, as I was only able to upload 3


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File comment: top-main2
20200617_205346.jpg
20200617_205346.jpg [ 615.36 KiB | Viewed 982 times ]
File comment: bottom-module2
20200617_205317.jpg
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File comment: top-module
20200617_205525.jpg
20200617_205525.jpg [ 539.05 KiB | Viewed 982 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:40 am 
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On the demo video on the website, the opto couplers have dots on them, do yours?

Attachment:
optocoupler_module.jpg
optocoupler_module.jpg [ 25.35 KiB | Viewed 950 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:17 am 
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Have you dialed in the trimpots as indicated in the optocoupler module instructions?

Quote:
Setting The Trimpot:
When you are finished with your build, you will have to set the trimpots. Set the BIAS trimpot to about the middle. From there, adjust it slightly to either side until you get the best sounding phase effect. Use your ear and set it to what you think sounds best. The same goes for the VOICE trimpot. This changes the vocal quality of the effect. Set it to the spot that sounds best to you. There is no wrong way to set the VOICE trimpot.

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:22 am 
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Quote:
On the demo video on the website, the opto couplers have dots on them, do yours?

No, my octocouplers did not come with any dots on them. However they did have a longer leg, which I used to align them correctly



Quote:
Have you dialed in the trimpots as indicated in the optocoupler module instructions?

I have set my trimpots, however I don't believe this to be the issue, as I get no sound whatsoever. Right now they are each at about halfway, which I assume is valid if my pedal was making sound.


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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:41 am 
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The modules for this pedal generate the phased signal which is then mixed back with the dry signal on the main PCB. But the pedal should work fine with the module removed--it will just output your dry signal. Please remove the optocoupler module and try running the pedal with the footswitch engaged. I would guess that you will still have no output (which would confirm that the problem is on the main board or footswitch), but this should be confirmed.

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:57 am 
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duhvoodooman wrote:
The modules for this pedal generate the phased signal which is then mixed back with the dry signal on the main PCB. But the pedal should work fine with the module removed--it will just output your dry signal. Please remove the optocoupler module and try running the pedal with the footswitch engaged. I would guess that you will still have no output (which would confirm that the problem is on the main board or footswitch), but this should be confirmed.

I can confirm that I am getting no output with the octocoupler module removed and the pedal engaged


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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:46 am 
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OK, several follow-up points:

  1. Do you have access to a multimeter and know how to use it?
  2. Do you have a signal tester?
  3. Unless there appears to be some obvious build error in the photos (and I don't see any), we almost always recommend working through THIS PROCESS. Note that this includes careful inspection of your solder joints and trimming of any long lead/wire ends in addition to re-flowing ALL of the solder joints.
  4. That's a pretty rough looking footswitch. If it was me, I'd rewire it. Some pointers on doing that here: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=33293 If you do so, just be a bit careful with the application of heat with your soldering iron--the body of the switch is plastic, and too much heat can cause melting internally and allow the lugs to shift and lose contact with the switching mechanism. Just keep your iron contact with the lugs to about 3 seconds or so and let them cool off for a bit between heat applications.
  5. You may also want to verify that the switch itself is functioning properly. Here's how to do that: http://byocelectronics.com/board/viewto ... 10&t=31545

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 9:48 am 
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I have a multimeter, but no signal tester. Thanks for the information, ill check it out and report back later today.


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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:02 am 
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casimirj wrote:
I have a multimeter, but no signal tester.

That's fine, at this point. In addition to what I already posted, we have a couple of other things we can check with the multimeter. A signal tester is a useful tool if these other checks don't turn up the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:04 am 
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casimirj wrote:
Quote:
Have you dialed in the trimpots as indicated in the optocoupler module instructions?

I have set my trimpots, however I don't believe this to be the issue, as I get no sound whatsoever. Right now they are each at about halfway, which I assume is valid if my pedal was making sound.

Not to derail the course you're on with duhvoodooman—you're in good hands there—but you did say you got some faint signal with the volume turned way up. Something like that is often consistent with trimpots not being dialed in. Again, keep going with what you're working on; just something to keep in mind in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:06 am 
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You've got the 1054 charge pump and a TL072 chip mixed up. The chip on the top side of the PCB should be the 1054

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:47 am 
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byoc wrote:
You've got the 1054 charge pump and a TL072 chip mixed up. The chip on the top side of the PCB should be the 1054



Wow I never even noticed they were different chips, after I get off my shift I will try this out.


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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:52 am 
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byoc wrote:
You've got the 1054 charge pump and a TL072 chip mixed up. The chip on the top side of the PCB should be the 1054

Day-um!! I shoulda noticed that!!!! :oops: :evil: Well, I guess that's why he's the boss!! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:09 pm 
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Oooh, ditto to that. Apologies, OP, I should have caught that too. Make sure you let us know if it solves the problem. We're here for you if you still need help!

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:00 pm 
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Okay so that solved a problem.

Now, the pedal makes noise when turned on, but only when the mix isnt at 100%. When I bring the mix knob to 100% it drops off, meaning I assume that something is wrong with my phasing module. I went ahead and tweaked the trimpots for quite a while to no avail. It seems like all other knobs that dont deal with phasing work. The input/output knob, and the mix knob all function as expected. The Rate knob seems to work as well, as the led changes speeds based on its position. However I cannot comment on the depth/regen knob, for obvious reasons.

I should warn you, basically the only thing I did was change the chips, I have not reflowed the switch, nor done any other troubleshooting steps. I do still plan on it, but figured id post my results here for now.

You guys are ridiculously helpful and professional. Can offer your team some good beer from a local brewery?


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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:03 pm 
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casimirj wrote:
...I went ahead and tweaked the trimpots for quite a while to no avail.

That included the two on the module as well as the three on the main PCB?

casimirj wrote:
I should warn you, basically the only thing I did was change the chips, I have not reflowed the switch, nor done any other troubleshooting steps. I do still plan on it, but figured id post my results here for now.

Working through the inspection & reflow process on the module is highly recommended. You can skip the footwitch stuff, since it is apparently working fine (looks aren't everything! ;) ).

You might also want to check some DC voltage levels with your multimeter. Here's the basic procedure:

To measure DC voltage levels, set your multimeter to the DC voltage mode, indicated by a solid line above a dotted one. Use the 20VDC range setting if it's not an auto-ranging meter. Your power source needs to be connected and there needs to be a cable in the input jack. If the pedal is assembled into the metal enclosure, put the black probe into one of the corner screw bosses of the enclosure--this is your ground connection. If the "guts" are out of the enclosure, use the sleeve tab of the input jack for the ground connection. Then touch the red probe to each point that you want to measure.

I would start by measuring the +9 and -9V pins on the left side of the module to insure that it is getting the voltage levels that it should (they will probably be closer to +8 and -8V.) If those are OK, check the voltages on the #4 and #8 pins of the two TL072 op amps. The pins are numbered per the left side of the image below. Keep in mind that some of the values should be negative.

Image

casimirj wrote:
You guys are ridiculously helpful and professional. Can offer your team some good beer from a local brewery?

It's certainly nice of you (and appreciated by us!) that you would make such an offer, but we forum moderators are scattered all over the place--Scott (sjaustin) and I are in upstate NY (but 200 miles apart!), and "the Boss", Keith (byoc) is in Washington state. So unless you want to split up a case and mail it all over the US, I think we should just accept your gracious words and leave it at that!

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 Post subject: Re: Phase Royal Issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:43 pm 
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Do what DVM suggested. But you should also remove the module, and stick a jumper wire between the send and return sockets. This will allow you to have "wet" signal, even though it won't have any effect. This will let you verify that the problem is indeed with the module and not the main board.

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