Build Your Own Clone Message Board

Hello!

I just build the divided octave after having great success with the soaring skillet but it's not working.

Here is what it does:

While the pedal is off I get a guitar tone through it. When I click it on I get no signal, no noise or anything, just totally quiet.

Engaging the bass only switch gives me a signal, but no octave, just my dry guitar signal regardless of how the switches or pots are set.

Both LEDs are working with their respective switches and I am getting dry guitar signal out the AUX output as well.

Any ideas? The only thing I can kinda think may have been amiss during the build was that I had a bit of trouble with the wiring of the on switch. I had to solder and desolder terminal 7 a couple times trying to get that jumper in there with the lead going to the board. I don't think I was overly aggressive with it. I was conscious of not heating the lug for too long but did have to take a couple desoldering attempts with a desoldering braid to get the eyelet cleared. Could it just be the switch that needs to be replaced?

I've attached pictures of the board below. Thanks in advance!

Happy Holidays!

Josh

Hi ya Josh - great looking build! Bummer it's giving you trouble.

These are fairly unusual symptoms. Usually with no signal in effect mode, it is usually a wiring issue with the footswitch. But since you have signal in bass only mode and through the aux out, we know your wiring is working fine. Also, if you did bugger lug 7, the LED would not work.

There are a couple of likely scenarios. One is that the MAX1044 charge pump is not working. Check the voltage at pin 5 - it should be about negative 9 volts. Unfortunately, the schematic doesn't seem to tell us where that -9v goes, but it typically goes to pin 4 of the op amps to increase headroom, so check voltage at pin 4 of each 4558 too.

The next likely scenario is that you just have a bad solder joint blocking signal somewhere that it is not letting the higher or the lower octave through. To find that, the easiest way would be to use a BYOC SIGNAL TESTER or to build your own from COMMON PARTS.

You want to use that to trace the signal through the circuit and find out where you loose it.

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

Schem does note that -v runs to pin 4 of all op-amps. +v to pin 8. I just wanted to remove any doubt from Mogan's statement, he's right on the money as per usual.

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

Thanks so much both of you! I'm not home but when I get home tonight I'll check those things. I do have a signal tester but i'm not sure i know how to use it. I can't look at a schematic and tell where the signal flow is going.

An audio probe will be a huge help in debugging this one, assuming that your voltages turn out to be okay.

As far as the "not generating an octave" when you hit the bass button goes: If you have an audio probe, check the gate of the 2N5457. You should have a really square low pitched signal there while playing. If you don't, the problem will exist before that point. If you do, then it narrows down the problem to later in the circuit.

You can also trace the audio at the output pins of each op amp.

The circuit LOOKS very complicated (okay, it IS complicated), but taking it in bite sized chunks is critical to debugging it.

If you haven't made an audio probe, there are instructions around somewhere, but you can do it with just a cable, a capacitor, and a couple alligator clips. The capacitor gets attached to the tip (you then use the other leg to probe) and the sleeve gets grounded.

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I'm Jon. My band. Just me. Vids. PCBs: Bearhug & Cardinal: 1776 Effects. Hamlet & Blue Warbler: JMK PCBs. Flabulanche: Madbean

Is c27 the correct type of cap?

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Doh! Stupid Diode

Yes - I think they used a film cap outline there for space considerations. It's noted in the instructions "The 4.7u capacitor highlighted in yellow is not a film cap and should not be added at this time. It is an electrolytic cap and will be added when you add the other electrolytic caps."

Good eye though RR!

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

So I checked the voltages. Pin 5 of the MAX1044 was at -7.98 as was all the pin 4s of the op amps. So that seems ok.

I tried to use the signal tester but really don't know what i'm doing and couldn't get anywhere with that unfortunately.

Any other ideas? I'm getting a bit disheartened. I have been careful and meticulous in my work but this is now my 2nd BYOC pedal that hasn't worked. Soaring skillet works great but I am 1 for 3 as this divided octave and the analog delay don't work. I even sent the delay to someone recommended here to troubleshoot it and he sent it back still not working.

Hey Josh - sorry for letting this fall off the radar.

The instructions for using the signal tester tell you how to hook it up. You want to trace the signal path to find out where you loose signal, and then let us know what you find.

The ringer portion of the circuit is not working. Here is that signal path - IC1 pin7 > middle lug Q1 > middle lug Q2 > R30 > R31 > pin1 IC1

Trace that out and see where the signal stops.

Also, like midwayfair said, check for signal at the output of every opamp (that is pin 1 and pin 7) and check for signal at the 2N5457.

You can also check voltages at every op amp pin to see if anything is off. Pin 8 should be supply voltage, pin 4 should be -8, and all the other pins should be about halfway in between there; probably about 1-0.5 volts.

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

Thanks for continuing to help me with this. I'll try to check those voltages but I'm at a loss when it comes to tracing the signal. I tried doing it but all I got out of my amp was a very loud hum that sounded like it was going to blow my speakers, even when my volume was turned down pretty low. When I touched parts of the circuit with my signal tracer it made even louder crackling noises and pops and only occasionally could hear a bit of my guitar signal coming through. Am I missing something?

Thanks again.

Josh

When you use the signal tester, you want to think of it as a "moveable output jack". Remove the output cable going to your amp (or next device in your signal chain) from the output jack, and plug it into the jack of the signal tester. Clip the black wire to a ground point--I usually use the sleeve tab of the output jack, but any grounded surface in the pedal will do. Then touch the red probe to the various points in the effect circuit you want to test. Obviously you need to have power going to the pedal and your guitar signal going to the input jack. A good place to start is the tip of the input jack, since you know there should be signal present there. Then it's a matter of following the signal path through the effect circuit using the circuit schematic as a guide. You've already got some good guidance above on some of the key points in the effect circuit to test. Just follow the signal through until you find where it drops out.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

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Ok, thanks again, here's what I've found...

First of all, I can't make the signal tester work at all. I have your instructions for it but whenever I connect the amp to the signal tester and touch ANYTHING, even just connect the alligator clip to the chassis or a ground lug on the output jack I get a VERY loud buzz that is much louder than my guitar signal even if my guitar is plugged directly into the amp! Again, it sounds like it is going to blow my speakers. Why would that be? I can't even get far enough to start trying to trace the signal as you instructed.

Short of that, I did measure the voltages on every pin of all the chips and they do not match up with what you said they should be in many cases. They are as follows (voltages are listed from pin 1 through pin :

IC1
0
.001
0
-7.98
.007
.008
0
8.68

IC2
.001
.001
0
-7.98
0
.001
0
8.69

IC3
.011
.011
.01
-7.98
.004
0
.005
8.69

IC4
-6.4
.002
.001
-7.98
0
.001
-6.47
8.68

IC5
-6
.006
.001
-7.98
4.3
1.109
8.16
8.69

IC6
-6.6
7.74
4.92
-7.98
8.3
7.82
7.82
8.69

In case it matters, here is the 1044:
8.69
4.28
0
-4.04
-7.98
4.07
6.31
8.89

And the big ICs:

IC8
8.69
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
8.57
8.69

IC9
8.69
8.69
0
8.69
0
8
0
8
8
0
8.7
0
-0.58
8.69

Can anyone make sense of all of that?

Thanks,

Josh

The signal tester is a noisy beast. When you don't have the probe connected to a part of the circuit with signal, you should get a noise similar to having a guitar cord plugged into your amp with nothing plugged in on the other side (no guitar plugged in), except louder because the signal tester is not shielded. Turn your amp down if it sounds like it is going to blow the speakers. If you probe the tip of the input jack, you get a somewhat normal guitar signal?

Your voltages all look spot on except for IC9. This chip is orientated upside down on the pcb compared to all the other chips, so I'm wondering if you reported the pins backwards. Look at the pcb map - it shows how the pins are oriented. Retake your votlages from IC9. This is what I get from IC9 on my build:
1-5: 8.1 volts
6: 8.7v
7: 0v
8-9: 8.7v
10-13: 8.1v
14: 8.7v

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

Thanks Morgan. I'll have to give the signal tester another try.

However, the pin readings from IC9 are indeed as I listed them. I did notice the upside down orientation and reported it accurately as 1 through 14. Do my numbers being off there mean the chip is bad?

I think you should remeasure to confirm those readings. I'll do the same on mine.

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

Just checked, the values I listed are indeed my readings for IC9 1-14.

Well, it could be a bad 4011 chip. I'd be more comfortable if you could use the signal tester to determine if there is signal at IC5 pin 7, IC6 pin 1, and Q4 before calling it a bad chip. But they aren't very expensive if you want to try replacing it yourself.

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

So I found a NTE4011B locally and swapped it out and the pedal still doesn't work but it is behaving differently now. When I click on the pedal I now get a VERY quite guitar signal coming through, but no octaves. When the bass only switch is on I get a normal signal (no octave, normal volume though). When I click both switches on I get no signal through.

Okay. Need to get that signal tester working. Rebuild it if you need to.

Have you reflowed all of the solder joints on the pcb yet? That should also be on the list.

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

Not sure if we covered this, but most issues like this are resolved by resoldering things. Joints may look okay but still not pass signal. A lot of us reflow all the solder joints after populating the pcb before mounting it in the enclosure, just as a matter of course.

You want to make sure your soldering iron tip is clean, shiny, & hot. Each joint should be smooth and shiny, and solder should completely cover each pcb pad. And cut those component leads as short as possible.

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

Ok, so I'm getting a bit better with the signal tester. The weird thing is, it seems like my signal dies early. There is no sound at the higher number IC's outputs. IC1 has no sound at 1 and very quiet signal at pin 7. I can hear it but it is much quieter than the original input. As you go to IC3 & 4 you can hear it a bit but again very diminished, except for IC4 pin 7 which sounds pretty loud. No signal at all at IC5 and 6.

Need to start here. the signal at IC1 pin 7 should be louder than the input signal. The resistors that control the gain for this half of the op amp are R3 at 390k and R4 at 100k. You need to triple check those values and resolder them to make sure the joints are okay. Other components that could effect the signal in this part of the circuit include R101, R2, and C1 thru C4.

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MasterDelayer/Reverbrador/Ampaholic/TopJacker

This may have no relation to your problem, but IC1 looks like it's seated cock-eyed in its socket. You might want to try taking it out and reseating it, making sure that it sits squarely in the socked and is fully inserted.

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“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2