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 Post subject: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Location: Belgium
Hi again
I'm still a novice and I still follow the instructions without really understanding all that's happening, but still... I'm learning every day. I've built 20 BYOC pedals so far. And 18 of them work :-)

I've build 2 wah's so far (following the standard instructions, no mods) and was happy with the result. I also have a Fulltone Clyde wah deluxe (with external gain and a rotary switch for different wah-sounds - i suspect these are different CAP-values). I really like these options (especially the 'wacked' position).

Anyway, I have a customer that wants a wah and he tried mine at his home. However, it sucked the tone of his AC30 amp (according to him).
So, I thought of modding my wah to a "full option demo wah", so he (and future customers) can choose what option they want in their wah.

The instructions talk about the following mods:
- true bypass (i have the DPDT switch)
- 2nd inductor (i bought a red fasel and a 3P4T rotary)
- different cap-value mod (i have a 1P12T rotary)
- external pots for Gain (100), Bass (1), Mid (5), Q (250) and Buffer (100) (I have the pots with solder lugs -B Taper)

In the forum, i read about the LED-mod
And then a bunch of excellent tips in Stephens posts.
Concerning wiring of the footswitch, concerning external pots, concerning resistors in series..
By the way, I do wish they were IN the instructions :-)

So before I tackle the possible technical questions (and I will dive in the forum first), I have this question:
What MODS would you do on this demo-wah, so customers can see what mods are useful?

Best regards and happy new year!
Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:27 am 
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The only wah mods I would do are the true bypass mod, an external Q mod, capacitor mod and an ON/OFF switch for the output buffer.

In my experience (and IMO) the inductor mod is a waste of time. The original wah schematic called for a 500mh inductor. Over the years I’ve found that inductors that measure within plus or minus 5% of that spec sound the best. I’ve measured a lot of red Fasel inductors and they have all measured at over 600mh. The yellow has consistently measured well below that spec. 350mh or so if I remember correctly. None of them sound as good as some stock Dunlop inductors. In fact the Dunlop inductor that has consistently measured within spec has always been the toroidal inductor like in the photo below.

The Gain mod is a set and forget type of mod. When a Cry Baby is modded to true bypass it causes a drop in output volume. The stock gain resistor is 68K. When modified this resistor needs to be lowered in value to offset this volume drop. Typically it is lowered to 47K. Personally I wish this mod had a different name. Calling it a “gain” mod is misleading IMO.

The Mid & Bass mods are also a waste of time. These settings do more to screw up the sound than they do to enhance it. Especially the bass mod. Getting this value wrong really screws up the smooth transition from toe up to toe down of the treadle. I personally have never cared for this or the Mid mod. If I were to add these mods I would not use a pot to do them. A pot allows you to make too large of a change in the resistor value. I would instead install sockets for these resistors and only vary their values by plus or minus 50Ω or so for the Bass mod and plus or minus 200Ω or so for the Mid mod.
Attachment:
File comment: Inductor
Inductor.jpg
Inductor.jpg [ 105.97 KiB | Viewed 971 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:00 am 
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Thanks a lot.
I've dived into all the threads that I found about these mods.
I still have some final questions.

These are the mods I'll do (can you take a quick look to see if this seems ok?):

- add a led (i found the post)
- change the 3P3T BYOC switching to Stephen's switching ("Wiring the Wah's Stompswitch")

- Q-MOD: not sure iff I'll go for 10k + 100k pot or 33k + 50k pot. Probably the first, since it's a demo (wider range). Why didn't Keith put in a 100k trim instead of the 250k ?

- GAIN/BASS/MID : I'll forget about those :-)

- INDUCTOR: I've bought the RED FASEL, so I'm gonna give it a try :-)

- CAP MOD: I'll use .0082 / .01 / .022 / .033 . Since it a demo (and I have a 12 position), is it interesting to add lower or higher caps as well?

- OUTPUT BUFFER ON/OFF: I'll do this. But I am confused. I thought this was the true bypass mod, but Stephen recommends to do BOTH the true bypass mod AND the output buffer ON/OFF switch mod. I thought they were the same. This is still unclear for me?


Final questions:
- in a previous post ("Wah troubleshooting") a rotary was used to switch between INDUCTOR MOD and VOLUME swell. Can the wah be used as a volume swell? This could be a plus for customers...
- practical question: for the CAP mod. Do you attach the CAPS to perfboard? And, if so, how do you attach the perfboard to the wah? I've never done this. I could find a solution, but I'm interested in the "clean" way to do this :-)


Thanks for your help, it is MUCH appreciated!

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:27 am 
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Add an LED
This one is up to the individual. It’s fairly obvious whether your wah is on or not.

Stomp Switch Wiring
Most definitely wire the stomp switch so that the circuit input gets shorted to ground when in bypass mode. The wiring diagram in the wah’s build document does NOT do this.

Read my thread on mechanical bypass switching…
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6525

Q Mod
I’ve never heard of anyone wanting less vocal quality (lower than 33K) to their wah’s sound. They have always preferred more so on this one I would go the 33K plus 50K linear pot route.

Gain/Bass/Mid
Definitely do the Gain mod but with a fixed resistor. The end buyer might want to experiment with the final value (usually 47K) of the resistor so using sockets for this one might be the best way to go.

Inductor
Buy one within spec (500mh to 520mh) or wind your own to spec.

Cap Mod
If I’m not mistaken the cap values used for this in Dunlop’s wide range of wah pedals is .01uf, .022uf and .033uf. I’ve never seen anyone go lower than .01uf. In my personal wah I used .01uf, .015uf and .022uf.

Buffer Mod
The output buffer is used when placing the wah in front of a fuzz pedal. The sound without the buffer is quite unpleasant.

Volume Pedal Mod
Removing the 4.7uf cap from the circuit makes the pedal behave sort of like a volume pedal. A true volume pedal is the better way to go IMO

Cap Mod 2
I place the caps on a DPDT ON-OFF-ON toggle switch. The .01uf cap goes across the center lugs of the switch. A .005uf goes on one set of throw lugs and a .012uf cap goes on the other. With the switch in the middle position the .01uf cap is in the circuit. Throwing the switch adds either the .005uf or .012uf cap in parallel with the .01uf cap.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the center lugs of the toggle switch also get connected to the cap’s place on the PCB.

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Many thanks!
Silly question maybe, but one that I'll ask only once :-)
Can you point me in the right direction with the sockets? I don't know how I'd do this.
Sorry :-)
Tom


"Gain/Bass/Mid
Definitely do the Gain mod but with a fixed resistor. The end buyer might want to experiment with the final value (usually 47K) of the resistor so using sockets for this one might be the best way to go."

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:01 pm 
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https://buildyourownclone.com/collectio ... ocketsil64

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Thank you, Stephen!
Enough questions for now. Let's start modding the wah :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Stephen,
Thanks for the tips! I've drawn everything and decide values and stuff...
I have one more question about BUFFER VOLUME: You didn't talk about an external pot for the output buffer (and I didn't ask). Is it useful to do this? I imagine I could easily adjust output volume. If yes, should this be AUDIO or LINEAR? I suppose audio? Off course I'll do the bypass mod as well on a DPDT switch.
Remember, this will be MY personal "over the top" beta-modded Wah. So customers can see what's useful and what's not, so values and possibilities can be a little "exaggerated".

The mods I have decided (thanks again, i've learned a lot studying your answers and your posts, and there's still lots more to learn, so I hope my mods are ok):
- Q: I don't have a 50K pot for now, so 'ill go with a 4.7 res + B100k pot. Once everything's in place, I can easily experiment later on and switch pot and resistor values.
- GAIN: instead of interchangeable resistors (I don't have the sockets for now), I'll put in a B25k POT with a 47k resistor. That way I can finetune between 47k and 73k. Does this seem a good idea? Again, I can experiment later.

And of course:
* your CAPmod on a DPDT switch: i've wired them 0.01 - 0.0082 - 0.022. That way I get extreme values: 0.008/0.018/0.030. So I can change the values accordingly afterwards. I could use the rotary for more options (so I don't have to change the values afterwards), but I'd have to use some board to mount these caps and I don't have a clue how I should do this...)
* true bypass wiring (with circuit to ground as you mentioned)
* LED: I play a lot of experimental stuff where I use wah in a fixed position, and - frankly - within that wall of weird soundscapes, it has happened that I forget that the wah is on :-) . So LED is a good idea in my case :-)
* Bass and MID: NO mods.

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:22 pm 
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I think of the buffer’s volume as a set and forget like the Gain resistor. Once it’s set it doesn’t really need to be messed with anymore. Other than that it looks like you’re ready 2 rock.

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Busy working on different projects apart from my dayjob, so the Wah-project was on hold.
But today I finally drilled the wah enclosure, so I wanted to post an update :-)
It's overkill as hell, but, hey, it's a demo for the customers :-)
I'll use "clips" (don't know the english word) on the wires from the PCB, so I can easily swap potentiomers.

PS: it keeps me amazed to notice that this wah has been causing havoc in my mind for weeks (months?) and then one sunny moment and 50 minutes later... Bam! Another reminder for me: think less, do more ;-)


Attachments:
018 - Wah 04.jpg
018 - Wah 04.jpg [ 96.52 KiB | Viewed 841 times ]
018 - Wah 03.jpg
018 - Wah 03.jpg [ 106.32 KiB | Viewed 841 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:31 am 
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Ok, I'm having a blackout here...
I read somewhere in the Wah-posts about this, but I can't seem to find it anymore.

Do all 3 lugs of external pots have to be connected to the appropriate spot in the PCB? I pretty sure, 2 is enough, as Stephen explains that one lug isn't used (viewtopic.php?f=33&t=11207) . But it seems I recall that 1 wire is enough, although that seems weird.

I want to be able to swap pots easily, so I'll put clips on the wires so I can remove the wire to measure the resistance i like, so less wires is better :-)

thanks
tom

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:18 am 
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Think about it for a moment. If a pot only has one lead connected how is a signal going to travel thru it? If the signal comes in it has to have a way out too.

As for the pot’s unused lug it can be left hanging or you can connect it to the wiper of the pot. This makes the pot a variable resistor rather than a voltage divider. There are some that will argue that leaving the 3rd lug unattached to anything risks the pot picking up RFI. I’ve never experienced this personally but I short the lug to the wiper anyway just to be safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Thanks
I feel silly :-)

I was thinking that maybe on certain pots one wire from the PCB would be enough, because the other would go to the chassis (like a guitar tone control).

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Finished version 1.
It was a good experience. Building and thinking about this thing was as interesting as the final result (if not more so).
I'll finetune later. Some small problems still to make it a very good wah.
I do find that the Fulltone Clyde Deluxe has a nicer feel when I use the pedal. Also a lot more quiet. I think the white 'thing' pushes the black 'tooth' too hard against the potentiometer's tooth drive shaft. Not sure... Maybe someone else experienced this?
Anyway, here are some pics.


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IMG_7131.jpg
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IMG_7132.jpg
IMG_7132.jpg [ 274.9 KiB | Viewed 706 times ]
IMG_7136 (1).jpg
IMG_7136 (1).jpg [ 280.05 KiB | Viewed 706 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Wow! Now that's a wah!

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:00 pm 
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Maybe I should call it The Wicked Wah :D
That's what happens when one can't make up his mind :lol:

But seriously, it still makes too much noise while "rocking". I need to find a solution for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Tom wrote:
Maybe I should call it The Wicked Wah :D
That's what happens when one can't make up his mind :lol:

But seriously, it still makes too much noise while "rocking". I need to find a solution for that.
what kind of noise?


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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Well, as I mentioned above (i don't know all the names in english),
I do find that the Fulltone Clyde Deluxe has a nicer feel when I use the pedal. Also a lot more quiet. I think the white 'thing' pushes the black 'tooth' too hard against the potentiometer's tooth drive shaft. Not sure...
So i could use it in a rock setting, but not for more intimate concerts.

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:50 pm 
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The enclosure and gears are actually physically making noise?

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:39 am 
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Yes. The gears.
(and the click of the footswitch, i still have to experiment with the correct height, i use the nut on the inside)
Here are some pics.

And there is off course a click when switching between caps with the rotary, but I don't think that can me helped? My fulltone clyde deluxe does the same (albeit less loud).


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IMG_0860.jpg
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IMG_0859.jpg [ 218.91 KiB | Viewed 688 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:39 am 
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Maybe you could ream out the screw hole on the white cable clamp and make it a little larger so that you can adjust the tension.

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 Post subject: Re: Full Option Demo Wah
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Thanks, I thought of that as well this morning. I'll give it a shot.
And now I even know how the thing's callled :-)

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