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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:06 am 
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Gino wrote:
Barry, did you get my wiring diagram?

Gino, if you have a wiring diagram shoot it to me and I will host it up for all to see!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:46 am 
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Wiring diagram added to the download section!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:07 am 
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Hey Guys

Sorry I couldn't be of more help with this recently. I have been super busy and have moved. I won't have much access to my DIY stuff for the next eight or so months so I can't really walk you through this. All I can do is watch all the cool stuff you guys do and dream up my own designs :)


The project may seem a bit daunting and elaborate but I can assure its not. If you refer to the BOM for all the component values it is very easy to populate the board. The off board work is extremely minimal thanks to the layout Gino and Curt creates. There no real high voltages so nothing to be to nervous about there. Come on get started! :lol:

Any questions (anything) post here or you can email me direct (chris@pdfelectronics.com).

Chris...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 2:05 pm 
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I think it's worth noting that the "Quick & Durrrty" wiring diagram I did is unverified and is basically just the schematic redrawn onto the assembly drawing.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:31 pm 
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:D Well if this thing is so simple to build then I would imagine a lot of people are already off to the races and will have it slapped together in no time flat!

So if one of those kind soles would like to post a few progress pics and words along the way for those of us that might not be as bright :P That would surely be fantastic! Especially those parts which have nothing to do with pedal building.

I plan on starting this soon and will probably be posting pics and asking questions along the way and maybe someone else can get some use out of it. While it is true that there is not much to it I am still looking at a few things and wondering what exactly am I supposed to do with it so this should be an excellent learning experience for me as well as maybe raise my IQ a point or two.

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:33 am 
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Why doesn't the "layout" diagram show any traces?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:58 am 
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my7of9 wrote:
... I am still looking at a few things and wondering what exactly am I supposed to do with it so this should be an excellent learning experience for me as well as maybe raise my IQ a point or two.

What, exactly, are you having trouble with? Feel free to ask about anything that may be murky. :)

Stephen wrote:
Why doesn't the "layout" diagram show any traces?

The document is called an assembly drawing and it shows the placement of the parts. I left the traces out so that you can see the reference designators and it will make building easier. If you would like the PDF of all of the gerbers then I can provide it.

Honestly, I'm trying to raise the bar a little bit with this build. With a good schematic, assembly drawing and bill of materials you have everything you need to build a board up. Also, I gave manufacturer part numbers rather than Mouser part numbers because, despite what seems to be the general notion, Mouser isn't the only parts vendor out there.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:33 am 
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Mis-post.

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Frag Magnet wrote:


BYOC: So easy even a drunk can do it!
:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:42 pm 
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I'm having the same problem. But, I may have a solution... the first person who posts, in this thread, a verified complete wiring diagram for the Top Drive from input to output and all points in between for us amp virgins then I'll send you a "Top Drive" PCB for your trouble. my7of9, "Suga", and I will decide if it's complete enough... and the first one will get a board on me... :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Guys, don't treat this any differently than any pedal you've built... There's nothing different about it. It's not the easiest build but if you've built more than three pedals then this shouldn't really be all that difficult. Again, pointing out specific areas of difficulty would be helpful.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:21 am 
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For the most part, yes, it seems stupidly straight forward. It all seems well laid-out, and the option to use the headers is going to make this super easy to put together. The issue I'm having is understanding the where the transformer connects with the PCB to the wall. The wiring diagram posted a few days ago helps greatly. Granted, I haven't even ordered the parts yet. Probably when they are sitting in front of me it will all click. Still, if baj2k is in the same boat, I feel somewhat better about myself.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:35 am 
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SugarBear wrote:
The issue I'm having is understanding the where the transformer connects with the PCB to the wall... Probably when [the parts] are sitting in front of me it will all click.

Honestly, I think it will click once you have it sitting in front of you.

Also, I hope I'm not coming off as condescending when I say this build isn't that difficult. I'm not trying to be a dick but rather give you the warm and fuzzies that yes, it'll be alright and we'll get through this together. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:30 am 
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Ok lets see if I cant help out real quick! The confusion seems to becoming from the wiring of the transformer so lets start there. If you take a look at single supply transformer (as shown below in the linked datasheet) you will notice 5 wires. The side of the transformer with 3 wires is considered the primary side. These three wire are where the 120V line of the house current will tie into. On the opposite side of the transformer you will notice 2 wires. These wires are considered the secondary, this is where the 12v comes from that powers the circuit. I hope this explained something! http://www.pulseeng.com/products/datasheets/LT2006_39.pdf


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:14 pm 
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Ok, I'm sure I could figure it out, but I would say having a diagram is like a having a map, I know how to drive, I know approx. where Peoria is, I can read road signs, but I wouldn't head out in that general direction without a map.

I know nobody owes me a diagram that's why I offered to "pay" for one. All of the designs I've posted here came with complete wiring layout so that all skill levels could participate... virtually every other group project posted here came that way too... No big deal I'm only in it for the cost of a couple PCB's (although I wish someone would have mentioned that we'd be flying solo before I made my the order)...

Anyway, I'm not going to fork out any money on faith and the hopes that I'll figure it out before I ruin it... I really don't want to screw this up "driving without a map". Not really a must have project for me anyway... there are plenty of other fully documented cool projects out there waiting to be built for me to risk my limited budget "fiddling" with this one.

Stay tuned for a upcoming "Buy and Sell" post... :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:18 pm 
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Gino wrote:
<snip> I'm not trying to be a dick but rather give you the warm and fuzzies that yes, it'll be alright and we'll get through this together. :D


I'm not saying you are so please don't get me wrong here :wink: , but, it has been my experience with myself that is, that whenever I say something like this, upon further reflection, I realized I was... :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:26 pm 
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+1 to the statement 2 above!!!!

Unfortunately I already bought all the stuff I need. A few hundred later under the misguided assumption that there would be a roadmap and perhaps even a group effort to build and share.
On the other hand I definitely will have some hope that Gino and whoever eslse will try to help me along with this. I am sure they will and for better or worse it will get it done.
I have nothing to lose and only an experience to gain at this point so "All for one and one for all!"

I will not forget any part of this experience anytime soon though no matter how it turns out! And from the PM's I have received I am definitely not the only one!!!!

45 Years old and still learning things I should have figured out a long time ago! :lol:

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Last edited by my7of9 on Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:27 pm 
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baj2k wrote:
Ok, I'm sure I could figure it out, but I would say having a diagram is like a having a map, I know how to drive, I know approx. where Peoria is, I can read road signs, but I wouldn't head out in that general direction without a map.

I know nobody owes me a diagram that's why I offered to "pay" for one. All of the stuff I've designed and posted here came with complete wiring layout so that all skill levels could participate... virtually every other group project posted here came that way too... No big deal I'm only in it for the cost of a couple PCB's (although I wish someone would have mentioned that we'd be flying solo when the orders were being taken)...

Anyway, I'm not going to fork out any money on faith and the hopes that I'll figure it out before I ruin it... I really don't want to screw this up "driving without a map". Not really a must have project for me anyway... there are plenty of other fully documented cool projects out there waiting to be built for me to risk my limited budget "fiddling" with this one.

Stay tuned for a upcoming "Buy and Sell" post... :mrgreen:

What am I missing? Is this not a wiring diagram? :?: :|

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=0e0c ... f6e8ebb871

Honestly, I have no emotional attachment to this project so I'm not going to take offense to anyone getting salty over not knowing what to do. I simply laid out the board and, personally, I feel I've gone well beyond the scope of my involvement in this project as I've created a pretty detailed bill of materials and an admittedly dirty wiring diagram. I volunteered to do this layout for two reasons: 1) to give back to a community that has given me so much and 2) to show off my layout skills to a wide audience and potentially generate business for myself. I've already been contacted to do some layouts so it looks like it worked. That's great and I appreciate it.

If someone would kindly tell me what they need other than the data provided, I will do my best to provide it. Chris has pretty much wiped his hands clean of this project as he's starting school. I guess that leaves me to answer questions. I've answered some of Barry's questions, but other than him I haven't seen another question. I can't answer questions that haven't been asked.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:29 pm 
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I am also here to help as well, I just dont understand what you are confused about? Let me see if I can come up with an even more in depth wiring diagram.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:34 pm 
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Just so as you know I do not have a problem with you two guys at all (yah the two above me) :D

I know you will help me out!

Just to make sure I am being clear! :D

I have to get my project table ready for this and it is going to be a couple days yet....

I am not going anywhere.

Thanks! Gino and Guita101

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:38 pm 
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I am working on a REALLY easy wiring diagram RIGHT NOW. STAY POSTED!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:12 pm 
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Download added for LARGE version!! Hope this helps!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:31 pm 
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Now that is what I am talking about!!!

Thank you! I am sorry you had to do that because quite frankly you did not need to as far as resonsibility is concerned.

But it was kind of you!!! :D

I still have some questions but it will have to wait till I am ready for this!!

Well I guess I will ask one now anyway. More to come to be sure! :lol:
What gauge of wire do you recomend for some of the different parts of the preamp. For example Tube Sockets - To and from transformer.
So you see where I am with this but is it wrong to aspire to better things?

Anecdote: I had a friend of 17 years who was a Master Electrician. A bit full of himself but a friend nonetheless! When he found out I was building pedals he just laughed! Then other friends started telling him that I build really good pedals! (Thanks to this forum and the 98% of excellent personalities) He called me shortly after that and started giving me a quiz over the phone. His first question was what is the purpose of a Diode? I told him to make current flow in one direction but in pedal building we also use diodes for...etc...etc. He then proceded to ask more questions and I stopped him and said "John, WTF? I know you are a Master Electrician and we both already know I am not an electrician so WTF is your problem?? From day one he never offered me one piece of advice ever! I have not talked to him since! Quite honestly not too many people like him at all and he is a rather lonely fu#*er.

Thanks for listening and thanks for helping!!!

Sincerely,

Barry

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:13 pm 
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the only question that has been bouncing around in my head with this project is do the locations of the transformer and tubes and even the wiring have to be laid out in any specific way to avoid any potential noise or other issues?

this is my first tube related project as well and i always read about how the layout is so important with tube amps.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:14 am 
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Guys this is a low voltage tube preamp, not a full blown tube amp. This is great though as a lot of the nasty tendencies that come with building HV tube amps don't apply here.

Wire gauge really doesn't matter. I used 24 gauge stranded throughout. The heaters I used 22 AWG stranded, black and red, 24 would work but I go over spec. The wire used to go from the mains to the switch/socket etc can be the excess wire from your transformers leads.

Transformer placement doesn't matter too much. The voltage is low so the placement isn't critical by any means. In general though you keep the transformer away from high impedance/input signals. For this reason try and keep the transformer to one side and keep the tubes to the other. My personal build shows this.


That wiring diagram is as clear as it gets. Really just look at the PCB, C1, refer to BOM, C1 is 20000mF for example, take your 20000mF cap and solder it in. All the parts are pretty standard and there is nothing too wacky in the design. I all parts I had on hand when I built/designed this unit.

Only thing that the wiring diagram does not show is the XLR/foot switch wiring. That is only three wires though and can be left to the very end. I can explain it later if need be.


Msg me with questions...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:16 am 
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my7of9 wrote:
What gauge of wire do you recomend for some of the different parts of the preamp. For example Tube Sockets - To and from transformer.

Everything on the input power side up to the transformer (J1, F1, SW1, T1) should be a decent size, say 18AWG. Notice that the fuse is only 630mA, so you're really not pulling all that much current, but at 110VAC, you should still err on the side of caution and make sure you have some thicker gauge wire there. On the secondary of the transformer it's only 12VAC, but you might as well keep it thick there, too. As for the rest of the board, 22AWG (or whatever gauge you use for pedals) will do just fine.

my7of9 wrote:
Anecdote: I had a friend of 17 years who was a Master Electrician. A bit full of himself but a friend nonetheless! When he found out I was building pedals he just laughed! Then other friends started telling him that I build really good pedals! (Thanks to this forum and the 98% of excellent personalities) He called me shortly after that and started giving me a quiz over the phone. His first question was what is the purpose of a Diode? I told him to make current flow in one direction but in pedal building we also use diodes for...etc...etc. He then proceded to ask more questions and I stopped him and said "John, WTF? I know you are a Master Electrician and we both already know I am not an electrician so WTF is your problem?? From day one he never offered me one piece of advice ever! I have not talked to him since! Quite honestly not too many people like him at all and he is a rather lonely fu#*er.

I hope that wasn't directed at me because this guy sounds like a piece of shit and I would never talk like that to someone, let alone a friend, who is just learning about this stuff.

synner88tc wrote:
the only question that has been bouncing around in my head with this project is do the locations of the transformer and tubes and even the wiring have to be laid out in any specific way to avoid any potential noise or other issues?

Chris or someone else will have to chime in on this issue for this project specifically as I haven't built the Top Drive. However, given that we're dealing with an audio circuit, transformers can be noisy and tubes can pick up noise pretty easily, I would keep the tubes a good distance from the transformer, make sure I have good ground connections everywhere and maybe even shield the tubes. From Chris' build you can see he didn't really put too much distance between the transformer and the tubes... http://www.pdfelectronics.com/TD%20Bare ... 20Shot.JPG

Chris' website has the prototype build up. The design has changed slightly from this but maybe seeing some of these pictures will give you guys ideas... http://www.pdfelectronics.com/top_drive.htm


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