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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Location: Cleveland, OH
I've frankensteined CJ's LFO with Tim Escobedo's Wobbletron. Sounds pretty good on the breadboard!

Image

edit: Changed speed pot to 25kB. I do this every time with this LFO and never remember on the schematic!

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Last edited by saxoftenest on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Vibrato
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:16 pm 
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nice!! Clips??

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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Vibrato
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:01 am 
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Damn you! I was going to do this exact thing as my next project! :lol:

Ah well, you saved me the trouble. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Vibrato
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:26 am 
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culturejam wrote:
Damn you!

:lol:

I've been messing with the depth control, trying to get a little more wiggle out of the circuit, but it may be the audio side that needs some adjustment. Any ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Vibrato
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:44 am 
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Wow, looks very cool. Sound lips would be amazing.

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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Vibrato
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:50 am 
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saxoftenest wrote:
I've been messing with the depth control, trying to get a little more wiggle out of the circuit, but it may be the audio side that needs some adjustment. Any ideas?

Have you tried adjusting the distance between the LED and LDR? I find that on some circuits, it works better if they aren't as close as possible. The phase-vibe I just did is that way. It's much better if there is about a quarter inch between them.

Another thing that I've also been thinking about (but haven't tried for modulation), is that perhaps the LDR needs to be adjusted not to swing so far in value. If you put a trimmer in parallel with the LDR, you could effectively set the upper limit of the resistance. That might do the trick. If you have a 1M trimmer, start with that and walk it down in value. Whatever the trimmer is set to (resistance) is what the LDR will be limited to when the LED is dark.

Of course, the "big boy" way to solve this would be to go back and look at the LFO on the Magna-Vibe (almost the same as the EA Trem) and figure out what the min/max voltage swing is. Then we could adjust our LFO to make it work the same.

Or, you could go commando and add another phase shift stage. I did something similar, and ended up with a three-stage phaser (which started out as a vibe):
http://circuitworkshop.com/forum/index.php?topic=1008.0

And here is a clip of the final version:
http://soundcloud.com/effdub/punyphase-v2-1-demo


dcountry13 wrote:
Sound lips would be amazing.

Nothing I like better than a big full set of sound lips wrapped around....oh wait. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Vibrato
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:07 am 
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This just gave me an idea:

If we used a transistor array IC, such as the LM3046, we'd have four NPNs to work with. The gain on those is vintage (150-ish), but I think it could work.

So, use the LFO from the Magnatone Vibe (1 transistor), have an input buffer (1 transistor), a wobbletron-like phase shift stage (1 transistor), and then maybe a common emitter amp on the output (1 transistor). With the flashing LED mod on the LFO, we could use that to drive an LDR on the phase shift stage.

Whattya think?

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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Vibrato
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:40 pm 
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Here's a clip of me dicking around with various settings.

I like where you're going, CJ! I tried the 1M trimmer, but as I turned it the problem got worse not better. Same with moving the LDR further from the LED. I think it sounds good as is, but I wish I could shift the range of the depth control. The most CCW setting is not enough depth to really any noticeable wiggle. If I could have the depth control start with the setting at ~10:30am and go to 5:00pm, it'd be nice. Even better, I really want the depth control to go past 5:00pm. It's so CLOSE to being crazy wobbly enough for spacey freakout stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Vibrato
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:44 pm 
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Hmm. That's interesting. Let's think about how this thing is doing the phase shift and see if we can't figure out something.

The output of a common emitter amp is 180* out of phase with the input (because it is an inverting voltage amplifier). And the output of a common collector amp (like a buffer) is in phase with the input. So the amplifier in the Wobbletron is a very clever way to alternate the output between those two extremes. When the LED is bright, the LDR's resistance falls to a couple hundred ohms, and more of the output comes from the emitter (making it more like an in-phase buffer). And when the LED is dark, the resistance rises to greater than 1M, which effectively makes a short circuit, and all of the output comes out of the collector (which would make it out of phase). So by using the LFO to drive the LED, we get an output that is sometimes out of phase, sometimes in phase, and some of the time it's a little of both. Escobedo was a genius! And that's why I always steal his stuff. :lol:

So then, you are saying the following is happening:
• If you decrease the max resistance of the LDR with a parallel resistance, you get less effect. So that means we need to make sure the resistance is high to get the transistor to more fully output from the collector on part of the LFO cycle. Okay, that makes sense.

• If you move the LED further away from the LDR, you get less effect. I assume this means that the LDR is not getting enough light to make the transistor's output enough on the emitter side during the other part of the LFO cycle. Okay, that also makes sense.

So, we need to find a way to make the LED bright enough (or close enough), and also make sure it goes dark enough to get that LDR to max out its resistance.

I would suggest first seeing if two LEDs in series will work. You could probably move them back a little bit and get the same brightness, but also the distance would mean a darker dark-half of the LFO cycle. That might make the effect more pronounced. Or maybe use a higher voltage drop LED (like blue water-clear)?

The problem with LDRs is that they do not have the same response time for both their rise and fall. In this case "rise" means when they go from dark to light, and "fall" means when they go from light to dark. They usually rise quickly, and fall much slower. So it's hard to get a symmetric result from an LFO.

BUT, the Magnatone Vibe uses the same Wobbletron base, but with an LED/LDR combo driven by the EA Trem LFO, and it gets pitch bendy as hell. So I know it can be done. It might come down to the LDR itself and it's min/max resistance and rise/fall specs.

Oh, and see what happens if you change the value of C5 to something much lower. I'd rig up a switch so you can hear the change in real time.

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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Vibrato
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Alright, an LED swap did the trick (tried everything I had, ended up with a white 3mm). It's now crazy enough for me. :mrgreen: I've been trying a bunch of different caps for C4 and C5, but keep going back to the 150n. Also, I think a 1kC depth pot may be the way to go. I'll have to add that to my next parts order.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:40 am 
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I'm getting tremolo, but not a lot of wobble to my ears - nice trem mind.

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