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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:28 pm 
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He didn't test for signal, but rather checked for continuity/resistance between the input jack tip and the input hole of the upper boost socket with the first/last switch on "first" and the boost stage engaged. This should have been 470 ohms (from R3) but was off scale on his DMM. The output from the boost socket to the output jack read correctly (also 470 ohms, R4), so the R1 relay was working. With further testing, we were able to determine that there was circuit continuity up to the input to the R2 relay, but not coming out of it. Based upon this, I recommended that he replace the relay; he did so but this hasn't fixed the problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Continuity doesn't necessarily mean signal will pass. You will still get continuity even if there is a short of some kind that will bleed off all signal. A signal test would be the best method. I apologize if this has already been answered, but does D2 (the boost LED) light up? Is there 5v on pin 1 of the relay? Do you hear a click when you turn the boost channel on and off?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Peter Denissen wrote:
Replaced the relays. Still boost doesn't work.

One question, Peter: After replacing the relay, did you recheck for continuity per the tests in THIS POST? As Keith pointed out, it's possible that even if the new relay was working that you still might not get boost audio if there's a signal short to ground. It's worth checking, I think.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:06 pm 
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@ byoc: LED is on. No click. Stupid question maybe: How do I measure 5V pin 1 relay. I have to take out the PCB of the enclosure right? But how do I power it once it's out?

@ duhvoodooman: input jack tip => lug 3: 0 ohms. lug 3 => top op R3: nothing happens on the DMM. just: 1. and then nothing... Inputjack to lug 3 first it starts drifting a bit (like 1 sec.) and then gives a definite 0.000. Also, when checking continuity (this is on my DMM at 200 ohms setting and there's a beep going), tip to lug 3 beeps and lug3 to R3 no beep.

Hope this helps?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:09 pm 
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Peter Denissen wrote:
How do I measure 5V pin 1 relay. I have to take out the PCB of the enclosure right?

No, you don't have to remove the PCB from the enclosure. The leg of transistor Q2 immediately adjacent to the R2 relay is connected to its pin 1. You should be able to get a meter probe on that. And it won't be quite 5V; mine runs about 4.1V (with the boost switch engaged, of course).

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:32 am 
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There's 4.07 Volts DC on the first leg of Q2 (adjacent to pin 1 of Relay 2)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:05 am 
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Interesting. I'm thinking this is an MCU problem, but let's see what the Boss (Vonderhulls, not Springsteen) has to say. Might be a couple of days, this being a holiday weekend and all....

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Let's bypass the R2 relay and see if the boost is working then. Just run a temporary jumper wire from lug 3 of the first/last toggle switch to the top of the R3 resistor, as shown in the image below. Then test it through an amp, set up as before with the first/last toggle set to "first" and the boost engaged and overdrive bypassed. Test it first with the upper boost socket I/O holes jumpered, and if that works, install your clipper module and try that. Assuming that the boost module then passes signal, test the level pot through its full sweep to make sure that works.

Attachment:
CJ_relay2_jumper.jpg
CJ_relay2_jumper.jpg [ 30.25 KiB | Viewed 9581 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:54 am 
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Also, could you please check the voltages on the other two pins of Q2 and report them here? I see 4.90V on the base (middle pin) and 5.04V on the collector (bottom pin) on my CJ.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:43 am 
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duhvoodooman wrote:
Interesting. I'm thinking this is an MCU problem, but let's see what the Boss (Vonderhulls, not Springsteen) has to say. Might be a couple of days, this being a holiday weekend and all....


If the LED is lighting up, then I do not think this is an MCU problem. The current for the LED and the high signal to the relay are one and the same. However, the MCU does not turn the relay on and off directly. The relay draws more current than the MCU can provide, so the MCU uses a transistor as a sort of switch. The MCU turns the transistor on and off. The transistor passes or blocks current between the collector and emitter to the positive end of the relay's coil. So.....

I don't think the problem is with the MCU, but you could possibly have a problem with the Q2 transistor. You should have 5v on the collector of Q2. You should have 0v or almost 0v on the emitter of Q2 when the boost channel is off. And 5v on the emitter of Q2 when the boost channel is on.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:53 am 
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byoc wrote:
....And 5v on the emitter of Q2 when the boost channel is on.

My working CJ shows 4.1v on the emitter of Q2 with the boost engaged, so there appears to be a slight voltage drop across the transistor.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Where are the emittor and collector and how do I measure them?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:45 pm 
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You've already measured the emitter, which is the upper leg of Q2 just below the R2 relay. The collector is the bottom leg and the base is the middle one. And you're still measuring DC voltage levels. Measure all three legs with the boost off and again with it on.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:27 pm 
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How do I measure those other two 'legs' without taking the pcb out of the enclore and thus losing power?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Peter Denissen wrote:
How do I measure those other two 'legs' without taking the pcb out of the enclore and thus losing power?

Can't you get the meter probe on those two legs under the body of the transistor?? I'm referring to the Q2 transistor just below the R2 relay, not the relay itself. You were able to measure & report the voltage on the Q2 emitter earlier, so I would expect you could also test the base and collector.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:36 am 
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Boost off:
emittor: 0 V
base: 0 V
collector: 5.02 V

Boost on:
emittor: 4.08 V
base: 4.85 V
collector: 5.02 V


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:15 am 
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duhvoodooman wrote:
Let's bypass the R2 relay and see if the boost is working then. Just run a temporary jumper wire from lug 3 of the first/last toggle switch to the top of the R3 resistor, as shown in the image below. Then test it through an amp, set up as before with the first/last toggle set to "first" and the boost engaged and overdrive bypassed. Test it first with the upper boost socket I/O holes jumpered, and if that works, install your clipper module and try that. Assuming that the boost module then passes signal, test the level pot through its full sweep to make sure that works.

Attachment:
CJ_relay2_jumper.jpg


Has this been confirmed yet?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Temporary wire from lug 3 to top or resistor R3. Switch in position 'first'. I/O jumpered.
YES I Am getting signal!!

Installed boost module, also signal!!

Boost pot seems to work fine. by the way when totally on 0 there's no sound but this normal right?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:26 am 
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So does this work? And if so, whats the function of the relay? Because now its bypassed right?

Im just thinking out loud (like i know what im talking about ;-)...): either the new relay is defect again, or path from lug 3 to input relay is compromised, or the path from output relay to R3 is compromised, or theres some sort of shortage between more legs of the relay?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Peter Denissen wrote:
So does this work? And if so, whats the function of the relay? Because now its bypassed right?

By jumping the relay, you've permanently turned on the boost circuit. So it's great to show that the boost stage works, but this also shows that the problem is that relay isn't firing, for whatever reason. The reason the CJ uses a relay system is to give clickless, pop-free switching.

Peter Denissen wrote:
....either the new relay is defect again, or path from lug 3 to input relay is compromised, or the path from output relay to R3 is compromised, or theres some sort of shortage between more legs of the relay?

All those would seem possible to me, plus I would add one more: the connection between the Q2 transistor and the R2 relay could be compromised, preventing the relay from opening. I'd really like to hear Keith's take on this, though, since nobody knows this circuit like he does.

I know it's a pain, but it would probably be a good idea to go ahead and pull the whole PCB/hardware assembly out of the enclosure, de-solder & remove the boost level pot and carefully inspect the solder side of the board around the relay, first/last switch and R3.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:17 am 
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Ok! Thank Voodooman ;-)
I have my tools ready to desolder. But ill wait till Keith has reacted before i desolder. You never know...

So, come in Keith ;-)...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:02 am 
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It sounds to me like the relay is still faulty. lf the jumper is working, then the only other possible explanation is that you still have a cold solder joint somewhere at the emitter of Q2 or one of the relay coil leads (pins 1 and 10). If you are certain that your solder joints are good at these points, you should contact sales@buildyourownclone.com and request another relay and a strip of SIP sockets.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:26 pm 
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I just realized that the jumper test you did, wasn't directly jumpering the relay. Please try the jumper test again, but this time make the jumper between the north ends of R3 and R4. Those eyelets connect directly to pins 1 and 10 of the relay, so it would be the same as flipping the PCB over and soldering directly to the relay without having to remove the PCB from the enclosure.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:31 pm 
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What is weird is that the test you did previously only jumpers half of the relay. Signal still has to flow through the second half of the relay, so the coil still needs to be actuated for it to work. Is this correct? Did you need to turn the boost foot switch on and off for it to work?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:48 pm 
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byoc wrote:
What is weird is that the test you did previously only jumpers half of the relay. Signal still has to flow through the second half of the relay, so the coil still needs to be actuated for it to work. Is this correct? Did you need to turn the boost foot switch on and off for it to work?

Not weird based upon the prior testing results. See THIS POST and the next several after it. We found that the problem was on the input side of the boost module, while the output side was working fine. So the results with the jumper make sense--once the input side of the R2 relay was bypassed, signal passed all the way through the rest of the boost circuit, including the output side of the relay.

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