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Hi, all! So a while ago I made a Silver Pony 2.0 (had to substitute a couple values because the kit called for some odd ones and I'm sourcing parts myself).

My resulting build sounds pretty great, but there is quite a lot of "honk" (upper mids?) that make the pedal unsuitable in certain circumstances and with certain amps. Is there an overall fix/mod to tame or even suck out some of those frequencies? It's there really no matter how I have the tone knob and fat/full/normal switch.

(Most of my subs are pretty close - 22K for a 20K resistor, 33pF for a 30pF cap kind of stuff. I'll try and look back into my notes to be more specific when I get a chance)

I doubt that the type of substitutions you're describing would be the cause of your problem. If you post some photos of your build, we can take a look and see if we notice anything else that might have gone awry.

_________________
Scott

My band, Austin Hollow

They need to be LARGE, well-lit, well-focused shots of BOTH sides of the PCB and all of the jack and switch wiring.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

Hey Folks!

Hope everyone has faired well through the madness of the last two years. Here's my Honky Pony. I had also compared it to some other commercial Klon clones, and again this thing is just SO honky and midrangey compared to them that something must've gone pear shaped during my build. PCB images below.

Thanks again!

Couple of comments:

How does the position of the Gain control affect the "honkiness"? Is there a noticeable difference between full on and full off?

Same question for the three positions of the fat-normal-full toggle. And have you checked the values of caps C4, C5 and C6 to be sure that they are at least close to the specified values in the schematic (82n, 150n and 390n, respectively)?

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

In both 390n cap places (C6 and C13) I have 330n instead. The other 2 caps you mentioned are the proper values.

The honk is definitely tied to the gain. With gain at 0, the pedal is pretty transparent besides what the tone knob is doing, and that's behaving normally. As soon as I give it a tiny bit of juice with the gain, the honk comes blaring out.

In all 6 toggle combinations, the gain/honkiness response is the same. And the level knob doesn't affect it either.

Sure sounds like the problem is there in the gain loop of that first op amp. I would suggest a couple of things to check out next:

• Check the function of the fat-normal-full toggle switch using the continuity function of your multimeter. You should see continuity between the center lug and one of the two outside lugs when the toggle bat is in the "fat" or "full" positions. Continuity should be with the outer lug on the opposite side of the direction where the bat is set. There should be no continuity to either outer lug when the bat is in the middle "normal" position.
• Carefully inspect the solder lugs of that group of caps to make sure that you don't have any solder bridging between the eyelets.
• If none of that shows any problems, you might want to desolder the toggle switch (Carefully! Best done with a solder sucker and good quality desoldering braid) and see how the pedal sounds with it removed.

One more thing--what are the exact numerical codes printed on the C4-5-6 caps?

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

No solder bridges between those caps.

Continuity was as you said it should be between the lugs of the Fat-Norm-Full Switch.

Took the switch out of the circuit, honk is still behaving exactly the same way.

Values printed on the caps: 2A823J, 2A154J and 334K 100L.

Not sure what the extra "100L" on that last cap is. J and K are tolerance levels, iirc?

Yes, J & K are tolerance levels, 5 & 10% respectively. I would guess the 100 is the voltage rating; not sure what the L denotes.

The other component involved with the RC network that defines the frequency response through the gain stage is R7, immediately to the left of C4. You appera to have two resistors "tepeed" there. The combined resistance should be 2K or very close to that. You should confirm that with your multimeter--you can accurately measure the resistance across the pair while installed in the circuit, since there is no parallel resistance path to drop the value.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

Resistance on the teepeed R7 is 1974 ohms

OK, then, I'm pretty much out of ideas. Let me see if Keith has some insights.

One thing that just popped into my head--be sure that there's no physical contact between the back of the dual-gang gain pot and the PCB beneath it. If so, slide some electrical tape or a thick piece of paper (a business card is perfect for this) between them.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

Thanks!

No contact behind the dual gang pot. There's a good mm of space here, and I know it's not an issue when I close it up because I've been testing it while out of the enclosure with all the same results.

As a side note, I have done a fair share of sliding in that little piece of elec tape on a number of builds now. I might start doing it more regularly as a precaution (Para EQ it was essential).

OK, I've emailed Keith, so let's see what he has to say....

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

What's printed on C2, C3, C7, and C10?

I don't think using a 470k instead of a 422k would make that much of a difference, but the Klon circuit is pretty picky.

_________________
*patience is a virtue*

Please do not PM me. email is prefered. keith@buildyourownclone.com

2A104, 2A683, 331 and 1 uf, respectively

Your substitution of the 470k for the 422k and the 330pf for the 390pf would increase the upper midrange.

Are you familiar with the Klon? It's a very midrange heavy overdrive, similar to a tube screamer. Do you think something is wrong with your build, or do you just want to know how to modify it?

_________________
*patience is a virtue*

Please do not PM me. email is prefered. keith@buildyourownclone.com

I wasn't 100% sure at first if it was SUPPOSED to sound like this or not but it's a somewhat unreasonable amount of midrange. After comparing it to other Klon clones, I was under the impression that something must be wrong.

I suppose at this point I'll just mod it to suck out that very excessive midrange. I can post some clips as well

That could definitely be useful. Be sure to specify the guitar and amp/output device you use, as well as anything else in the signal path. Include some clean signal, too, of course.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

Alright, here's a little demo.

Kiesel 7 string Aries (Holdsworth P'ups), bridge pos. -> Honky Pony -> Blackstar HT-1 with totally clean tone, ISF about 11 o'clock through an ancient Fender 2x12 Bassman cab (no idea what's in there, but iirc those are not original speakers).

I tried to keep the Pony at unity level and with the tone around noon, so it's doing as little as possible. All clips are with the Si diode, but the behavior is really the same across all of them. The Fat/Full/Normal switch is still removed.

Got an SM58 right up on it and into my Presonus Studio 1824 in Studio One, but the room isn't treated so I'm sure you'll hear some noise.

The following clips were all separately normalized so difference in volume shouldn't be a factor.

Clips are as follows:

00 seconds: Pony off
07 seconds: Pony on, gain off
14 seconds: Pony on, gain at around 9 o'clock
20 seconds: Pony on, gain maxed
25 seconds: messing with gain while a chord is ringing. I'm going from back and forth from off to about 11 or 12 o'clock

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HH-yMm ... sp=sharing

Sounds about right to me. Maybe just a tad bit more trebly than normal, which could be explained by the 470k resistor and 330p cap. And the Si diodes are going to NOT clip nearly as much as the stock Ge diode setting, which means the overdrive is going to be blending in much more strongly than was originally intended. It's also going to have a little more treble intact and won't be quite as compressed. What other parts substitutions did you make? I noticed that you're not using germanium diodes? What are you using in their place?

_________________
*patience is a virtue*

Please do not PM me. email is prefered. keith@buildyourownclone.com

According to the packaging, I used 1N34A Germanium diodes. Are they mislabeled?

Subs:

Resistors:

510R in place of 560R
5k6 for 5k1
33k for 27k
390k for 392k
470k for 422k

Caps:

330pF for 390pF
334n for 390n

Probably not. Though that's not the typical form, I've seen genuine germanium diodes before that looked like those. You can check by measuring their forward voltage with the diode mode of your multimeter. Germaniums generally measure in the range of 0.25 - 0.35V, where silicons are about twice that and LED's are well over 1V.

I checked out my own Silver Pony v.2.0 with a humbucker guitar through a clean amp using the silicon diode setting, and it seemed to me that the gain of your pedal rolled on faster than what I heard with my own. Is your dual-gang gain pot a B100K? OTOH, your guitar may just have hotter pickups. Do you know what the DC resistance is on those Holdsworth pickups?

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2

I don't know what the DC resistance is on the Holdsworth p'ups, but I'm pretty sure they're NOT on the hotter side. Definitely less output than the Bill Lawrence or Seymour Duncans I have in my Jacksons, and lower than my stock Gibson Studio p'ups and the Carvin p'ups in my older Carvin 7 string (I have... a lot of guitars...) but not as low as the Zebra p'ups that came stock in my 2015 SG (that's the Les Paul 100 years model, with the wider fretboard and the - long gone - robot tuners).

Also, the clip you hear is purposely the Pony going into my Blackstar HT-1 which is kind of a mid-scooped little guy. Putting it through my Peavey Classic 30, the upper mids are screaming harsh and honky. Not quite a wah pedal tilted 2/3 forward, but close.

If that's just the character of the Klon, that's cool. I guess I'd like to mod it to tame those frequencies then.

I'm familiar with those and they are definitely not real 1N34A germanium diodes. Really, it doesn't matter what the diode is made out of. The forward voltage is all that matters. For the stock klon clipping you want something between 300 - 400mV. So if you can test those and they come out around 350mV, then they are good. It can be difficult to find real Ge diodes that are actually in spec. The 1N60P is a silicon schottky diode that is readily available is is a good alternative to the 1N34A....it just doesn't have the cool mojo factor. It's actually what EHX using in their Soul Food klon clone instead of the 1N34A.

Anyhow....I don't think you're pedal sounds that far off. The taper on your gain pot isn't going to be quite what it's supposed to be if you're in silicon mode and you're also producing a bit more gain from the 470k resistor. It might seem like a small thing, but the "klon sound" is a blend of overdrive and dry signal, and your ratios are a bit off.

Aside from the 33k resistors you're using in place of the 27k, every substitution you've made will either produce more gain and/or more treble. Albeit, tiny amounts, you've still modified your pedal for more treble and gain. I'd suggest finding a 422k resistor, 390pF cap, and some genuine 1N34A from a reputable retailer or just use 1N60P, and see if you still want to modify it.

_________________
*patience is a virtue*

Please do not PM me. email is prefered. keith@buildyourownclone.com

Did you ever make any progress with this? My recently built SP 2.1 is a lot more honkier than my 8 year old SP 1.0.