Build Your Own Clone Message Board

It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:25 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:25 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Warren, Michigan's third largest city, just outside of Detroit.
Stephen wrote:
Maybe I'm not understanding what it is you're asking here but a DPDT bypass switch doesn't get wired to the AC jack.

If your 230's stomp switch is wired the same way a DOD YJM308 is it will be just like the SPDT Bypass (non-true bypass) diagram at the top of this thread. See the DPDT True Bypass wiring diagram (2 diagrams below it) to see what you need to do to convert your 230 to true bypass switching.


Here are a couple pictures:

Picture 1

http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/ ... 0_0205.jpg

Picture 2

http://s55.photobucket.com/albums/g152/ ... 0_0206.jpg

On the left side of the SPDT switch, the top lug of the switch is connected to the brown wire going to the circuit board. Nothing is connected to the bottom lug. On the right side, the right lug is connected with a purple wire going to the XLR jack. And that's it. Nothing else is connected to the SPDT switch. Hopes this helps. If you need more pictures, let me know.

David

_________________
Flip the switch, plug in, and stand back. Less is more and loud is good.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:16 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ohio
Probably gonna need a schematic. Since this pedal has high impedance and a low impedance outputs I have no idea how the bypass switching works. You could always use it with a true bypass looper.

_________________
"It’s your soldering."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:56 pm
Posts: 2
So 3DPTD wiring(the last one) will work with any effect and still achieve the same things?

For instance if one has a tri color led, or if another has an led that blinks in rate, or whatever...

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:38 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ohio
The 3PDT switching diagram is for bypassing the FX circuit and providing a status (ON/OFF) LED only. A tri-colored LED like in the triboost tells you which mode the pedal is in. The stomp switch turns the LED ON and OFF only. The Mode switch is what changes the LED's color. In circuits like the chorus pedal the LED is part of the FX circuit. It is not a separate circuit like it is in most of the other pedals where the LED tells you whether the pedal is active or not.

_________________
"It’s your soldering."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:45 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Washington, DC area
I know this is an old thread, but there's still something I'm not quite getting, probably because I don't fully understand how the switches work in the first place. What exactly does each lug on the switch represent? For instance, there are 3 spots in the SPDT switch, but there are only two options for the switch (i.e. on or off). The third lug is just for ground?

Question part 2: If they are the DPDT switch is just two SPDTs in parallel, why is the PCB output connection on the same lug as ground? On that switch, lug 1 is the same thing as lug 4, right? They're just two spots to connect the same things?

Question part 3: In the first two diagrams, you have the input and the "to PCB input" on the same lug, but when you move to true bypass, the PCB input moves to a different lug. Why wouldn't it move to lug 4 instead of 2? And for that matter, why does PCB output move to 4 from 3? The output seems to just move horizontally across, which is what I would expect the others to do (with my limited knowledge of the switches).

I guess I mostly just don't understand how the switch's parts connect internally to make all these various connections possible. I'm trying to learn more about electronics so I can do all this stuff without asking a million questions, but I'm still pretty much a newbie...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 6:02 am
Posts: 42
Location: UK
thebigcheese wrote:
I know this is an old thread, but there's still something I'm not quite getting, probably because I don't fully understand how the switches work in the first place. What exactly does each lug on the switch represent? For instance, there are 3 spots in the SPDT switch, but there are only two options for the switch (i.e. on or off). The third lug is just for ground?

Question part 2: If they are the DPDT switch is just two SPDTs in parallel, why is the PCB output connection on the same lug as ground? On that switch, lug 1 is the same thing as lug 4, right? They're just two spots to connect the same things?

Question part 3: In the first two diagrams, you have the input and the "to PCB input" on the same lug, but when you move to true bypass, the PCB input moves to a different lug. Why wouldn't it move to lug 4 instead of 2? And for that matter, why does PCB output move to 4 from 3? The output seems to just move horizontally across, which is what I would expect the others to do (with my limited knowledge of the switches).

I guess I mostly just don't understand how the switch's parts connect internally to make all these various connections possible. I'm trying to learn more about electronics so I can do all this stuff without asking a million questions, but I'm still pretty much a newbie...


internally the switch connects pairs of contacts, so in this pic:
Attachment:
p001.jpg
p001.jpg [ 57.09 KiB | Viewed 16581 times ]


when the switch is "off" 2 is connected to 3, and 5 is connected to 6. Therefore because 1 is jumpered to 6, when off the signal just flows from input to output totally bypassing the PCB.

When it is on, the contacts are thrown the other way (think of it as contacts pivoting on the middle row and throwing up or down from there) so that 1 is connected to 2 and 4 is connected to 5. so in that scenario the signal flows input-pcb input-pcb output-output (and obviously between PCB input and PCB output is where the effect circuit is).

Does that help?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:45 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Washington, DC area
timmyo wrote:
when the switch is "off" 2 is connected to 3, and 5 is connected to 6. Therefore because 1 is jumpered to 6, when off the signal just flows from input to output totally bypassing the PCB.

When it is on, the contacts are thrown the other way (think of it as contacts pivoting on the middle row and throwing up or down from there) so that 1 is connected to 2 and 4 is connected to 5. so in that scenario the signal flows input-pcb input-pcb output-output (and obviously between PCB input and PCB output is where the effect circuit is).

Does that help?


So, if I'm understanding this right, 1 and 4 aren't actually connected in any way, they just happen to both serve the same function on the switch. In that case, why in the first picture was the PCB input connected to the same spot as the input and not to a different lug? I guess that is why you can't have true bypass with that switch, correct?

The other question, then, is how the input is connected to ground in the DPDT or 3PDT case, if 3 and 6 and 9 aren't connected in any way. I guess it is connected to the jack, but there was a whole lot of talk about why you would connect it to ground, so I'm assuming that's a different ground we are talking about.

Let me just make sure I understand the 3PDT diagram. In the off state, 2 and 3 are connected, thus the LED is not getting any signal; 5 and 6 are connected, and since 6 is jumpered to 3, the PCB input is grounded (what is the purpose of that? I'm not sure I did that on my pedal); and 8 and 9 are connected, so the jumpered input goes straight to the output. In the on state, 1 and 2 are connected, thus the LED does get signal and is grounded at the switch; 4 and 5 are connected, so the input goes to the PCB input and the jumper goes nowhere, since 9 is not active; and 7 and 8 are connected, so the PCB output goes to the output.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 555
Location: Portland, OR
Mr. Bigcheese,


Ignore all the connections for a bit. I'm not sure you're understanding completely how these switches work. When you have a Double Throw switch, whether it's 1, 2 or 3 poles, it's always in one of two states. However, I think you're over complicating things. Don't think about "on" or "off" or anything inherently being connected to ground. These switches are very simple. They always exist in one of two states. When you stomp the switch, it goes to the other state. The switch doesn't have "on" or "off".

Check out this MS Paint magic. The pole(s) in the middle are always connected either to the top row or bottom row. Simple as that. How you connect them is up to you!

Attachment:
p001.jpg
p001.jpg [ 62.05 KiB | Viewed 16581 times ]


Let that sink in a bit, and then go back to the diagrams with all the connections.

Hope that helps.

-J!

_________________
Funtime Links! Stephen's tips for a successful build!, Beavis Audio Tech Pages!, How To: Build Your Own Cables!, Knob & Switch Labels!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:29 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:36 am
Posts: 11622
Location: Attleboro, MA
Well put James!! (btw that's one exclamation point for your name and the other for, well, exclamation :lol: ) I always overcomplicate these things in my head as well and it really is this simple. the 'DT' is the double throw, which is where you get the one row of lugs connected or the other - the throw in a stomp switch is what happens when you actually stomp. The DP (double pole) is the number of lugs per throw.

One thing I will say is that there is one switch that acts like 'on/off'. The SPST. This one actually either makes a connection or breaks it. Like a lightswitch.

_________________
sjaustin wrote:
I love how the Behringer has no gut shot! "It is a Behringer." Classic.
µ


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 555
Location: Portland, OR
tonedeaf wrote:
Well put James!! (btw that's one exclamation point for your name and the other for, well, exclamation :lol: ) I always overcomplicate these things in my head as well and it really is this simple. the 'DT' is the double throw, which is where you get the one row of lugs connected or the other - the throw in a stomp switch is what happens when you actually stomp. The DP (double pole) is the number of lugs per throw.

One thing I will say is that there is one switch that acts like 'on/off'. The SPST. This one actually either makes a connection or breaks it. Like a lightswitch.


Any "single throw" switch, whether it's SPST, DPST, 3PST, etc. etc. will either be "open" or "closed" but I didn't want to complicate things since we were talkin about double throw switches. :D

-J!

_________________
Funtime Links! Stephen's tips for a successful build!, Beavis Audio Tech Pages!, How To: Build Your Own Cables!, Knob & Switch Labels!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:45 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Washington, DC area
@James!: I think I get all that (I was just trying to make sure I understood how that played out in the application, which is why I typed all that out). What I don't get is this line: "You'll notice that these last two diagrams use a diagonal jumper across a pair of the solder lugs. This shorts the input of the circuit to ground when in bypass mode." How does the jumper short the input to ground? I don't see it connected to ground in any way on the switch. I didn't mean to imply that there was an "on" or "off" state, per say, but in the application here (for pedals), it seemed a convenient way to reference them.

P.S. - if thebigcheese is too much to type out, you can always just call me Nick :p


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 555
Location: Portland, OR
thebigcheese wrote:
@James!: I think I get all that (I was just trying to make sure I understood how that played out in the application, which is why I typed all that out). What I don't get is this line: "You'll notice that these last two diagrams use a diagonal jumper across a pair of the solder lugs. This shorts the input of the circuit to ground when in bypass mode." How does the jumper short the input to ground? I don't see it connected to ground in any way on the switch. I didn't mean to imply that there was an "on" or "off" state, per say, but in the application here (for pedals), it seemed a convenient way to reference them.

P.S. - if thebigcheese is too much to type out, you can always just call me Nick :p


A-HA! You were right to be confused. As far as I can tell, that's actually worded wrong.
Attachment:
p001.jpg
p001.jpg [ 59.89 KiB | Viewed 16578 times ]


There is a diagonal jumper, which makes it so that in "bypass mode" (which is when lugs 2/3, 5/6 and 8/9 are connected) the pedal input goes directly to the pedal output. The jumper between lugs 3 and 6 is actually what shorts the circuit input to ground in "bypass mode", which of course is a horizontal jumper. So the wording is mis-leading there. I tend to ignore the words and just stare at the picture until I've figured it all out. I'm a visual learner.

So lug 2 is connected to ground, which serves two purposes. In "effect on" mode, it connects to lug 1 and complete the circuit for the LED, allowing it to light up. When in "bypass mode", lug 2 is connected to lug 3, which is jumpered to lug 6, which is connected to lug 5. So this is the path from the PCB input to ground. Hopefully that helps!

-J!

_________________
Funtime Links! Stephen's tips for a successful build!, Beavis Audio Tech Pages!, How To: Build Your Own Cables!, Knob & Switch Labels!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:45 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Washington, DC area
Ohhh, so you short the PCB input to ground, NOT the guitar input. Ok, that makes sense now. I was wondering how it could be both shorted and still passing signal... Thanks for the clarification! I think I've got it all figure out now (for now). I can see what he was trying to say by saying "input of the circuit," I just wasn't clear on which one before, I guess. Thanks again,

-Nick


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:29 pm
Posts: 555
Location: Portland, OR
thebigcheese wrote:
Ohhh, so you short the PCB input to ground, NOT the guitar input. Ok, that makes sense now. I was wondering how it could be both shorted and still passing signal... Thanks for the clarification! I think I've got it all figure out now (for now). I can see what he was trying to say by saying "input of the circuit," I just wasn't clear on which one before, I guess. Thanks again,

-Nick


You got it. The signal from the input jack is not shorted to ground. It is sent directly to the output jack.

-J!

_________________
Funtime Links! Stephen's tips for a successful build!, Beavis Audio Tech Pages!, How To: Build Your Own Cables!, Knob & Switch Labels!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:06 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ohio
That's odd. I could swear I corrected that mistake a LONG time ago. At any rate I've edited it so it's correct now.

_________________
"It’s your soldering."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:26 am
Posts: 9
Is there a good reason why one does not send the effect output line to ground as well as the effect input line when in the bypassed state?

Sorry if this is a stupid question.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:56 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ohio
Because shorting outputs can possibly fry components.

_________________
"It’s your soldering."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:26 am
Posts: 9
Okay thanks!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Canadia
This has all been really helpful.

What is going on when 3PDT switches are wired, there is an LED, and all except one lug is being used?

_________________
I lurk.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:24 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ohio
Which lug would that be?
Attachment:
p001.jpg
p001.jpg [ 59.89 KiB | Viewed 16584 times ]

_________________
"It’s your soldering."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:53 pm
Posts: 164
Location: Canadia
[quote="Stephen"]Which lug would that be?
Attachment:
p001.jpg
p001.jpg [ 59.89 KiB | Viewed 16614 times ]


No, not on these diagrams. It's a different type of wiring scheme that I've seen on various pedals. After looking around, I'm figuring that it's true bypass with an LED, but the circuit input doesn't get sent to ground when in bypass mode.

EDIT: Like here: http://www.musicgearsource.com/colkv1.html

_________________
I lurk.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:07 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ohio
IMO that's a poor way to wire the stomp switch. Wiring it so the circuit input gets shorted to ground helps prevent turn ON pops. That other method is more likely to have issues with turn ON pops.

_________________
"It’s your soldering."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:34 am
Posts: 1
hi,
I'm planning to build a looper switch box with bypass mode using two 3pdt switch as shown in this photo from loop-master.com
Image

I found this link, Build your own Looper by Keith Vonderhulls http://musicgearsource.blogspot.com/, and I was wondering about the send jacks not grounded when in bypass mode,

My question is, does this create a popping sound since any of the send jack is not grounded?

I hope you could reply since this topic is quite old. thank you so much.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:01 am
Posts: 30
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
I'm a rookie at this and still having some trouble with my first build... but that's another issue.
Anyway, i'm just trying to understand all this cause i don't like to create something without really understanding it.

In my head a 3PDT switch has each column independent from each other, that is, Lugs 1,2,3 independent from lugs 4,5,6 and lugs 7,8,9. I concluded this from the fact that are needed jumpers between different columns of lugs. If this is true does the signal flow free between each column (that is, between lugs 1,2 and 3, between lugs 4,5,6 and between lugs 7,8,9) ???

Oh, and only after writing the things above i understood this.
Attachment:
p001.jpg
p001.jpg [ 62.05 KiB | Viewed 16580 times ]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:58 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 7662
Location: Ohio
wiregate wrote:
hi,
I'm planning to build a looper switch box with bypass mode using two 3pdt switch as shown in this photo from loop-master.com
Image

I found this link, Build your own Looper by Keith Vonderhulls http://musicgearsource.blogspot.com/, and I was wondering about the send jacks not grounded when in bypass mode,

My question is, does this create a popping sound since any of the send jack is not grounded?

I hope you could reply since this topic is quite old. thank you so much.

Wiring the stomp switch like this...
Attachment:
p001.jpg
p001.jpg [ 7.87 KiB | Viewed 16580 times ]


can result in turn ON pops since the circuit input (To PCB Input) doesn't get shorted to ground in bypass mode.

In order to short the input to ground you need to wire the stomp switch like this...
Attachment:
p002.jpg
p002.jpg [ 55.08 KiB | Viewed 16581 times ]

_________________
"It’s your soldering."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group