Build Your Own Clone Message Board

It is currently Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:04 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 8
Hey first time post here, this is also my first build (well other than the Confidence Boost). Thanks in advance for the help! The pedal works, switches, sounds great, etc. But I am getting a little tone suck in bypass. If I go straight to amp it is brighter and clearer than when the pedal is bypassed. My soldering skills are the prettiest but they seem to be good enough for everything else so not sure what is up here. Maybe because the PC board is not as clear a bypass as as straight wire from the 2 points on the switch? Anyway, I have a couple pics of the switch below. I did clean it up some and I reseated the switch board onto the socket on the mainboard. All is hooked up as it should be.

Thanks!
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:42 pm
Posts: 5439
Location: Brewtown, USA
I'm no expert, but I'd be willing to bet that reflowing the solder joints on the switch and shortening up that wiring from the jacks would help.

j.

_________________
Muad'zin wrote:
I want Pterodactyl sounds dammit, not a nice little analog sustain.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 8
Yeah I was kinda thinking of getting the solder sucker and cleaning those out on the switch and redoing. I am not cracked up about the use of the PC board on the switch, but I can't see it being the problem per se.

Yeah those lines look a little long, but it said 2 1/2 inches in the instructions. Would be easy enough to shorten I guess.

Again, first build. I was kinda shocked that it turned on at all! :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 8
Will do John. Maybe it is a design thing, who knows? May be a few days before I get round to re-doing those as I want to shorten the wires at the same time. Let me know if you redo yours and it makes a difference.

Anyone that has one of these built experienced this as well?

Chad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 8
I have cranked it, no hiss or no more than I would expect out of an overdrive. Every clone or "based on" Bluesbreaker pedal I have played has always been treble heavy and I usually keep it on the lower side lest it get ice picky. But other than that it seems fine. Really it is just the tone suck that is bugging me on it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:27 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:24 pm
Posts: 11912
Location: Albany, NY
I would check this on my own BBOD, but I built mine with a prototype PCB and the footswitch is wired to the board as opposed to using the mini-PCB connector system. I may try it anyway, just for grins.

This is certainly NOT an intentional "design thing" unless there's an error on the PCB or mini-board somewhere. That's the whole point of true bypass--to physically isolate the effect circuit from the bypass signal path so that tone suckage becomes an impossibility. I'll check through the board tracing for an error that could cause this....

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 8
Hey thanks! Let me know what you notice.

By "design thing" I merely meant maybe doing a straight bypass P2P on the switch as opposed to the mini PC board would be better and a more sure thing. I still need to redo the solder on the switch (given my experience level, more likely where the pro lies) just to be sure but honestly I prob won't get to it until the weekend.

Other than this minor bit the pedal sounds really nice and like a Bluesbreaker.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:53 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:24 pm
Posts: 11912
Location: Albany, NY
Good ears, gentlemen! There is indeed an error present on the BBOD PCB that would cause some slight tone-sucking. The bottom end of the 100K resistor (R10 on the labeled PCB diagram below) should connect to ground, but is instead connected with a short trace to the main output signal trace that runs between eyelet 8 above the footswitch and the OUT eyelet connected to the tip of the output jack. Ironically, this condition causes the resistor to do absolutely nothing when the effect is engaged, but provides a path for some portion of the signal to bleed back into the effect circuit when the pedal is in bypass mode. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this before, but I can find no mention of the problem previously.

Image

UPDATE 3/30/11: Per Keith Vonderhulls, the recommended fix is to just remove the R10 resistor. Alternatively, if the pedal isn't already built, just leave the R10 space empty. This is the fix he has decided to incorporate into the BBOD build instructions for the current rev. 1.0 PCB, since he has determined that this "output impedance" resistor has been serving no useful function in the current circuit layout anyway. It was included only because it was present on some Marshall Bluesbreaker samples Keith had evaluated. Removing R10 breaks the circuit path from the output trace back into the effect circuit, and will cure the tone loss issue. PCB rev. 1.1 and higher will have the error corrected, and R10 can be installed on those boards with no danger of "tone sucking".

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:42 pm
Posts: 5439
Location: Brewtown, USA
I've been watching this thread, since it sounded like such a weird issue, and an unusual problem for BYOC designs...

DVM strikes again! nice investigation there, buddy. do you wear a cape? you probably should. :D

_________________
Muad'zin wrote:
I want Pterodactyl sounds dammit, not a nice little analog sustain.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:05 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 7490
Location: Ohio
In the schematics I've seen R10 should be a 1M rather than a 100K

_________________
"It’s your soldering."

If Gene Roddenberry were alive today I would punch him in the face.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:26 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:15 pm
Posts: 7490
Location: Ohio
Replace R10 with a 1M. That's it. No cutting or jumping.

_________________
"It’s your soldering."

If Gene Roddenberry were alive today I would punch him in the face.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:43 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:24 pm
Posts: 11912
Location: Albany, NY
Stephen wrote:
Replace R10 with a 1M. That's it. No cutting or jumping.

Yeah, that should do the trick, too. The tenfold increase in resistance should effectively stop any significant treble loss through R10. That magnitude of resistor is very commonly used on the input buffer of non-true bypass pedals. I've now added this as a third fix option to the post above. Thanks, Stephen!

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:28 pm
Posts: 3265
Location: Alameda, California
Another option would be to place R10 in its top hole and connect it directly to the D5 bottom hole, leaving the bottom hole for R10 open. The Resistor then acts as the jumper. This of course would be easiest for new builds, but with a little desoldering and a fresh Resistor it could be done in 5 minutes.
-P

_________________
TNblueshawk wrote:
Actually I believe Powerpop sent it to me...I put one of his fuzzies in mine.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:27 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:24 pm
Posts: 11912
Location: Albany, NY
patrickbrose wrote:
Another option would be to place R10 in its top hole and connect it directly to the D5 bottom hole, leaving the bottom hole for R10 open. The Resistor then acts as the jumper. This of course would be easiest for new builds, but with a little desoldering and a fresh Resistor it could be done in 5 minutes.
-P
Yup, that would be a good approach, too, esp. for new builds.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 8
Interesting. Well I may just pull the resistor since I don't have an extra 1M in the kit. Hopefully that will just do the trick if as you said that resistor is not critical.

Chad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:57 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:24 pm
Posts: 11912
Location: Albany, NY
How much extra cable is being added when you go through the pedal? Keep in mind that cable impedance does have some tonal impact, but it's usually the opposite of what you describe--a loss of top-end sparkle.

If you had to keep going back & forth to discern the difference between straight into the amp and pedal bypass, I would throw out two options for your consideration:

1) Do this again, but with a friend or relative switching back and forth such that you can't see which way the signal path is set up, i.e a "blind test". Then play through it and make your guess of which of the two ways the signal path is running. Do this 10 times, mixing up the two setups randomly, and have your friend keep score on your guessing accuracy but not tell you the results until the very end. Unless you can get it right at least 7 times, I'd say it's your brain playing tricks on your ears rather than any real difference.

2) Alternatively, if it's that subtle, stop obsessing and play yer guitar!! :wink:

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:38 pm
Posts: 8
I will pull that resistor this weekend and report back. Just too much stuff going on this week. Will let you know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:10 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:24 pm
Posts: 11912
Location: Albany, NY
See updated "fix" post above. The official BYOC-sanctioned fix is to remove the R10 resistor, or leave it out if the pedal isn't already built.

_________________
“My favorite programming language is SOLDER” - Bob Pease (RIP)

My Website * My Musical Gear * My DIY Pedals: Pg.1 - Pg.2


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group